Hawkins Cheung about Bruce Less Hong Kong Years

[Primo]

ChuSauLei.Com Martial Arts - Articles: Bruce Lee's Hong Kong Years

[Trinculo]

Finde ich immer wieder toll, dass die Wing Chun-Leute besser über JKD Bescheid wissen, als Bruce Lee selbst

Alles was funktioniert ist *ing *un, schon klar

[JunFan]

Zitat von Trinculo Finde ich immer wieder toll, dass die Wing Chun-Leute besser über JKD Bescheid wissen, als Bruce Lee selbst Alles was funktioniert ist *ing *un, schon klar

@ Trinculo

das sage ich doch auch die ganze zeit!
wenigstens bin ich nicht der einzigste der das denkt




Gruß


Pascal

Zitat von Primo ChuSauLei.Com Martial Arts - Articles: Bruce Lee's Hong Kong Years

Als Topic wohl falsch gewählt. Geht ja nach zwei Seiten schon eher um den Vergleich WT-JKD:Beginn der dritten Seite:
"To understand Bruce and his martial art, you have to look at his mother art, wing chun"

Und zweitens ziemlich alt.
Also eher der Versuch, eine Trollschlacht zwischen WT und JKD anzuzetteln.

Major.

[Primo]

Wie kommste denn darauf , daß ich hier ne Trollschlacht zwischen WT und JKD anzetteln will ?

Und außerdem macht Hawkins Cheung kein WT !

[sumbrada]

Wobei ich schon sagen muss, der Text hört sich schon so an, als wäre er von jemandem geschrieben, der Bruce Lee nicht nur vom Hörensagen kannte.
Ehrlich gesagt ist es mir aber auch wurscht.

Hy

Habe mir denn Text durchgelesen und fand ihn interessant!

Es ist nunmal die Sichtweise von Hawkins Cheung, ob sie stimmt ?

Major: Die Abkürzung,Stil WT ist eine Kreation von Leung Ping dem ultimativen Professor,great Grandmaster!

Es ist eine Beleidigung zu behaupten das Yip Man ,Bruce Lee, Hawking Cheung usw. Wt praktizierten.(Was gerne noch immer von einigen WT Vertretern als Werbe Slogan benutzt wird, um Unwissende anzulocken und ihnen das Geld aus der Tasche zu ziehen!)

Hier ist die original Version von Cheungs Seite:

Hawkins Cheung interview

[JunFan]

wer ist hawkin cheung
Muss man das wissen?

[John1974]

OMG....

Ich hab hier noch irgendwo die Orginale Inside Kung Fu's rum liegen wo das ganze drinne stand.......ich fand es damals schon eeehm uninteressant....vielleicht was fuer die Historiker unter uns, ich Trainier lieber JF/JKD
War Hawkins nicht irgendwie ein Kumpel aus Bruce Lee's Jugendzeiten?

John

[FCVT]

@all

Hawkins Cheung war ebenso von Bruce ein Freund, wie auch William Cheung und Wong Shun Leung...

İch waere vorsichtig mit solchen Aussagen wie:

Finde ich immer wieder toll, dass die Wing Chun-Leute besser über JKD Bescheid wissen, als Bruce Lee selbst

Manchmal geht der Schuss nach hinten los...

[Trinculo]

Ich warte, bis der erste Shaolin Kung Fu Vertreter kommt und sagt "Ach, dieses Wing Chun, da wird heute so viel Wind gemacht. Ng Mui hat eigentlich immer, wenn es ernst wurde, auf ihre Shaolin-Techniken zurückgegriffen. Klar, den Schülern hat sie dieses "Wing Chun" gezeigt - irgendetwas musste sie ihnen ja verkaufen, musste ja auch von was leben. Im Grunde genommen ist dieses Wing Chun ja auch nur Shaolin Kung Fu - wenn man es richtig verstanden hat. Aber diese ganzen Wing Chun Leute haben natürlich nie richtiges Shaolin Kung Fu gelernt, deshalb werden sie auch nie so gut sein, wie Ng Mui - ihnen fehlt einfach die Basis."

[JunFan]

Zitat von Trinculo Ich warte, bis der erste Shaolin Kung Fu Vertreter kommt und sagt "Ach, dieses Wing Chun, da wird heute so viel Wind gemacht. Ng Mui hat eigentlich immer, wenn es ernst wurde, auf ihre Shaolin-Techniken zurückgegriffen. Klar, den Schülern hat sie dieses "Wing Chun" gezeigt - irgendetwas musste sie ihnen ja verkaufen, musste ja auch von was leben. Im Grunde genommen ist dieses Wing Chun ja auch nur Shaolin Kung Fu - wenn man es richtig verstanden hat. Aber diese ganzen Wing Chun Leute haben natürlich nie richtiges Shaolin Kung Fu gelernt, deshalb werden sie auch nie so gut sein, wie Ng Mui - ihnen fehlt einfach die Basis."

[Primo]

Zitat von FCVT @all Hawkins Cheung war ebenso von Bruce ein Freund, wie auch William Cheung und Wong Shun Leung... İch waere vorsichtig mit solchen Aussagen wie: Manchmal geht der Schuss nach hinten los...

Watt ist denn jetzt Deine Message ??? Erzähl mal.........

Ich bin vorsichtig !

[FCVT]

Die Message ist:

Nicht jeder WingChunler, der über Bruce Lee redet, will seinem Ruf schaden und sich in ein gutes Licht stellen! Und nicht jeder kennt ihn von Hörensagen, manche kannten ihn sehr gut!

[Andreas Mertsch]

Jesse R. Glover:

"I did meet Hawkins Cheung in Irvine Cal in 1982. I didn't see him move but he seemed like a nice enough man. I never heard Bruce mention Hawkins. But I do have a picture of him with Wong Shun Leung so he might have been around Yip Man and Wong during the time that Bruce was around them. Years ago I saw a tape of him moving but I didn't think that he moved anything like Bruce was moving. A few years ago when I used to visit some of the martial arts chat rooms Pat Strong used to post in them. One of the things that I remember him saying was that he really din't understand what Bruce was doing until Hawkins explained it to him. I know other students who were a lot closer to Bruce than Pat was and they have told me and shown me what he and Taky were teaching at the time. What he learned as a year and a half student of Bruce's and later a year and a half student of Taky's wasn't that much. The man that I am talking about was a close friend of Bruce's and they ran around together almost on a daily basis. One of the reason that some of Bruce's student dropped out of class was because he wasn't teaching that much. I have seen Pat's tapes when I was in Europe. He gave what I am sure that he believes is a break down of Bruce's technique but he doesn't do much that I ever saw Bruce do. When I first met Pat he was a high school student would was attending Taky's class. He used to come down to The Frye Hotel on 4th and main where Leroy Garcia, Jim DeMile and I were teaching and sometimes he worked out with us. I didn't see Pat for several years until I visted a friend who lived in Glendale Cal. Pat came over to my friends house and talked about some movie stuff that he was getting involved in and mentioned that was studying with one of the Gracies. If Pat says that he didn't understand what Bruce was doing until he started traing with Hawkins then I would think that he is expressing more of what Hawkins thinks Bruce was doing than what Bruce was actually doing. Clearly Pat did spend some time with Taky and maybe some time with Bruce but if he had to go to Hawkins in order to understand what Bruce was doing I would think that what he does is more representive of what Hawkins does than what Bruce was doing. I remember that I has a bit of a flap with an article that one of Hawkins' students wrote where he said that virtually every one of Bruce's first generation students had come to Hawkins to find out what Bruce was doing with his art. I told this man that most of the first group of students that Bruce had didn't even know who Hawkins Cheung was let alone had studied with him. I have taught a former student of Hawkins and he told me that he thought that what he learned was good but he didn't think that it was the same thing that Bruce was teaching. This same student had also studied with Ted Wong. His main comment about Ted was that he had amazing footwork that made it very difficult to close on him."

"I did read the series of articles that you mentioned. What I thought is that in some respects they were way off the mark. I remember reading that virtually all of Bruce's first students had come to Hawkins to learn what Bruce was doing. Most of the people who were first training with Bruce don't even know who Hawkins is let alone have come to him for answers about Bruce. I have seen at least one picture of Hawkins with Wong Shun Leung so I don't doubt that he was around when Bruce was training in Hong Kong. I also don't doubt that he communicated back and forth with Bruce and that Bruce might even have talked to him about some aspects of what he was doing. Have known Bruce and at one time being pretty good friends with him I have to doubt if he told anyone about everthing that he was doing. Bruce was the type of person who usually revealed something long after he was beyond it. He was too worried about other people catching on to what he was doing to reveal a lot. Secondly I don't know how it is that someone can tell someone in letters what he is doing and how he is doing it in a way that would impart that much information. Even with the people who Bruce was having direct contact with there were problems in their understanding what he was talking about and what he was showing them. The major things that Bruce left out of his instruction were most of the physical training things that he was doing to develop his body. Without these things, basic speed, power and coordination, techniques just don't work.

Jesse Glover"

Quelle: - Jesse Glover: Details Please - Powered by ForumCo.com - The Forum Company

Zitat von Trinculo Finde ich immer wieder toll, dass die Wing Chun-Leute besser über JKD Bescheid wissen, als Bruce Lee selbst

Keine Sorge ! Man erinnere sich nur an das Yip Chun-Märchen, von der WT-Propagandagebetsmühle immer wieder gern zitiert...

Grüße