Trick or Treat?

[Gin Lai]

YouTube - Ray Floro - Non Telegraphic Strike

[SteFanJKD]

I would say it is a liitle bit of both.

This could either be considered ABD or it could be considered PIA. But whatever tactic is being used for it to be effective there has to be Non Telegrahic motion, Longest to the nearest, and if you add footwork to this equation you would have TWJKD

This all about using Broken Rhytm/half Beat. I have used this tactic many times in Challenge fights, yeas, people have actually came down to my club and challenged me to fight.

I did exactly what was done in this clip. I asked "are you ready", and before he answered I hit my challenger and just continued hitting him.

I was of course told that I was cheating, that he was not reday, so we did it again, I asked, "are you ready........and continued hitting him

What happens here is attcking the opponets mind, the normal reaction is that when the question "are you ready" is asked of you, you will be expected to get a "full beat" time to get ready. If you hit the oppoenet on the half beat before he has answered, his mind is still occuoied with answering the question, not realy responding to your attack

So my answer is that what you see on this clip is no trick, it is simply using authentic JKD strategies mentally and physically. Most people think of a srategy like ABD and PIA as simply physical-physical. By that I mean a physical feint with a physical attack in PIA, a physical opening and a physical counter in ABD.

But JKD is much more than that, and that is what you see on this clip That is what TWJKD is all about.

/SteFan

[stagediver]

Good post, thanks SteFan!

[Gin Lai]

I agree to your observation, Stefan.
Though to make it work, you need to have developed some quintessential attributes, like speed, structure, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, etc.
To get these to work for you, actually is the hardest part of the ´game´.

Best,
Michael

[SteFanJKD]

Though to make it work, you need to have developed some quintessential attributes, like speed, structure, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, etc.

You are absolutely right, but these are not qualities that make anything you train JKD, they are universal to all styles.

Then it might be that some styles put more effort on these qualities in a technique than others. My oppininion and experience is that when I traines Karate it was more important that I did the technique physically the correct way than actually knowing how to apply the technique with speed, rhytm, cordination, timing and distance.

This became very obvious at my Brown beelt graduation. When it came to the final test, the free sparring, everybody came to me and said
- stefan, this is only a graduation, go slow, don't hit as hard as you do.....

I kicked everybodys ass with somewhat bad Karate form, but when it came to actually getting the brown belt I hardly got it, My "Form" was not good enough, they didn't care that my speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance was so much better than everybody else.

This is when I knew that karate is not or me. I took my Black Belt and I have never trained Karate since the day I got my Black Belt. After this Brown Belt Gradutaion I took my first steps to JKD, I started training what was availbale in Scandinavia, JKD Concepts.

What the took me to Jun Fan JKD is another story, but after a few yeras I was pretty much back to my Brown Belt graduation. But this time I had a lot of speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, But I missed the training of a good structure.

/Stefan

[Tangkapan]

Zitat von SteFanJKD You are absolutely right, but these are not qualities that make anything you train JKD, they are universal to all styles. Then it might be that some styles put more effort on these qualities in a technique than others. My oppininion and experience is that when I traines Karate it was more important that I did the technique physically the correct way than actually knowing how to apply the technique with speed, rhytm, cordination, timing and distance. This became very obvious at my Brown beelt graduation. When it came to the final test, the free sparring, everybody came to me and said - stefan, this is only a graduation, go slow, don't hit as hard as you do..... I kicked everybodys ass with somewhat bad Karate form, but when it came to actually getting the brown belt I hardly got it, My "Form" was not good enough, they didn't care that my speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance was so much better than everybody else. This is when I knew that karate is not or me. I took my Black Belt and I have never trained Karate since the day I got my Black Belt. After this Brown Belt Gradutaion I took my first steps to JKD, I started training what was availbale in Scandinavia, JKD Concepts. What the took me to Jun Fan JKD is another story, but after a few yeras I was pretty much back to my Brown Belt graduation. But this time I had a lot of speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, But I missed the training of a good structure. /Stefan

HI Stefan..

may i ask where you see ABC or PIA?

it s a fine demo on not telegraphing a direct punch !!

So for the most it is SDA in terms speaking

Also there is no broken rhythm, for there is no initiation of a counter, no feinting or combination

Greetings
R...

[SteFanJKD]

The basic way of explaining it is that in ABC every hit in a combination is intended to strike. If there would be feints involved it woul be a Compound Indirect Attack

With a PIA only the last strike is intended to hit, if the initial movement, the feint, would move back, it would either be a Indirect Compoung or In direct Single attack

Di8rect as you move a limb more than one time, feinting or actually hitting, it will be a Compoung attack.

But as I said, a move could also be talking, showing an emotion that not indicate that a physical move is on the way, and therefore that according to me would be a Compound Attack

/steFan

[Tangkapan]

Zitat von SteFanJKD The basic way of explaining it is that in ABC every hit in a combination is intended to strike. If there would be feints involved it woul be a Compound Indirect Attack With a PIA only the last strike is intended to hit, if the initial movement, the feint, would move back, it would either be a Indirect Compoung or In direct Single attack Di8rect as you move a limb more than one time, feinting or actually hitting, it will be a Compoung attack. But as I said, a move could also be talking, showing an emotion that not indicate that a physical move is on the way, and therefore that according to me would be a Compound Attack /steFan

Well thats not was happened in the video...
Even on the YouTube post... it explains as non-telegraphic punching.
We could discuss hours on what he might have intended..
But the facts still remain in the visual observation.

Saying that every single strike is intended to be followd by a combination is not totally true. and there is a distinctive difference between feinting and PIA.
Like i worte before..
At best he is doing SDA if we speak in JKD terms. But even Boxers know how to not telegraph a punch.. This doesn't make a boxer a JKD man.

:-)

I think it is funny who almost every time a person goes beyond whats obvious and interprets something that isn't actually there unless you are there in front of this person. Than he can say.. i did this or that, but my intention was so and so...
We can never know... but speculation grows and grows..
To much energy is wasted on this..

[Tangkapan]

For instance..
If i see a guy on a video doing Wing Chun or Escrima or so..
I cannot truly say that this person is good or phony based on what i have seen in this clip.
I can also not interpret what he might wanted to do.
I actually need to be in front of him to see and embrace what he is doing.

Never judge a book by its cover.

In some clips you can see that the particular technique is not properly executed, or if its really really stupid, but thats all.

[SteFanJKD]

I only wrote what I saw from my JKD point ofview in the video since a question was asked.

What I saw was simply a little more than simply a SDA, and like you said, we cannot be sure what he himself was teaching.

I don't feel that energy is waited when we share oppinons on a subject. Like Bruce said "All type of knowledge means selfknowledge". We cab learn a lot about our own JKD by speculating on videoclips etc.

/SteFan

[angHell]

Sure its a trick (at least partly) - ad its also a breaking of rythm (off beat/ half beat) - it's mainly a psychological trick - he asks, ready, and right when the answer comes he attacks. First the answering person is busy with thinking about the question / answer while he startig his attack. Second hes talking while the attack is already going on. Answering on such kind of questions is normaly going on automaticly, but thinking about it goes on after the answer was thrown/said. But nobody can say, he hasn't answered before the attack comes - and third: its the destroying of rythm - Question (1), Answer (2) Hit (2,5).

That there are attributes a condition, they (he) must have hardly worked for, is no queston...

[Tangkapan]

Zitat von SteFanJKD I only wrote what I saw from my JKD point ofview in the video since a question was asked. What I saw was simply a little more than simply a SDA, and like you said, we cannot be sure what he himself was teaching. I don't feel that energy is waited when we share oppinons on a subject. Like Bruce said "All type of knowledge means selfknowledge". We cab learn a lot about our own JKD by speculating on videoclips etc. /SteFan

Yep here i agree totally..
The Problem today is that too many people put way too much energy in Bruce'S philosophical approach then in it pysiological.
Well it's easier that way i think

[Gin Lai]

No need to get too scientific, imo.
It´s the distraction that does the ´trick.
Though set and ready, knowing he´s going to be hit, for a split second the receiver´s mind is still reflecting on the question asked (and further on choosing a possible answer), which is the moment to attack.
Try it out, it works nicely.
Ok, it sure helps to be a fast hitter, though.

[jpk@kkb]

Zitat von Gin Lai It´s the distraction that does the ´trick.

Hmh, sorry, I donno nothing about JKD. But there is no trick in this video. The "victims" are dead from the start. We have a saying in an old manuscript that sounds like "who does not move is dead/ who moves still lives" ("wer do leit der ist tot / wer sich rüret der lebt noch "). That just means, if you rely only on reactions a somewhere trained opponent has any time of the world to hit you anywhere he wants. In 80% you are physically unable to react fast enough.

The talking and questioning ist just to bring the victim in a calm stance.

[Bearcat44]

Zitat von jpk@kkb The talking and questioning ist just to bring the victim in a calm stance.

Well, that's the trick or so called 'distraction'.

I think both of you are talking about the same thing, just naming it differently.


And could someone please give me a quick briefing on the abbreviations ABC, PIA, SDA? What do they stand for, if they stand for something?

T H X!