crazysource
12-11-2003, 18:27
bzw. ringen + boxen+treten besser als BJJ+ boxen + treten. ich hab hier einen alten artikel aufgetrieben vom blackbeltmag.
was meint ihr dazu:
In his 1986 book, Western Boxing and Wrestling, John Gilbey contemplated how well different wrestling systems might fare in mixed-martial arts competitions. Although he noted the difficulty of changing styles for the practitioners of almost any discipline, he sided with the martial arts, particu- larly jujutsu.
Gilbey closed with a quote from Higashi, a Japanese jujutsu expert who spoke about the subject of wrestling vs. jujutsu in 1905: "American wrestlers are strong-much stronger than any of us pretend to be in muscular strength. After all, however, wrestling is wrestling. Against jujutsu, it is mere child's play. I have met a number of Western wrestlers, and they are as helpless as babes against jujutsu. And no one versed in the art of jujutsu is mad enough to expect anything else."'
Many of these suspicions seem to have been confirmed in recent mixed-martial arts competitions. Since the first Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) in 1993, Brazilian jujutsu has accumulated a certain fame in the mixed-martial arts community. Royce Gracie used this discipline to win three events (UFC 1, 11 and IV) and draw in a 35-minute superfight with Ken Shamrock in the UFC V. Other Brazilian martial artists also contributed to the prominence of jujutsu: Renzo and Ralph Gracie in the World Combat Championship and Extreme Fighting 1, 11, 111 and IV, respectively; Vitor Belfort in the UFC XII and XIII; and Marcus "Conan" Silveira in Extreme Fighting I and 11.
In fact, these Brazil ian-juj utsu stylists were so dominant at times that some observers contemplated whether they could ever be beaten. The impact of the Brazilian fighters on the martial arts has been enormous. Robert W. Young noted: "They have almost single-handedly forced the martial arts community to open its eyes with regard to the effectiveness of ground fighting. Thanks to them, a large percentage of the martial arts schools in this country now advertise instruction in ,,2 jujutsu, wrestling, judo or simply grappling. Given the profile of jujutsu fighters in mixed-martial arts events, the attention devoted to this style seems warranted.
Randy Couture (left), Black Belt's 1997 Full-Contact Fighter of the Year, quickly made a name for himself in mixed-martial arts competition by defeating Brazilian-jujutsu stylist Vitor Belfort and kickboxer Maurice Smith.
Statistics Don't Lie
When the overall record is considered, however, the success of Brazilian jujutsu is somewhat questionable. Table I, for example, ranks jujutsu as the No. 2 style with a record of 29-20-1, behind wrestling (44-21) and ahead of shootfighting (26-9-2). Moreover, Table II, which displays the winning percentages of various styles with at least 10 decisions, shows that jujutsu (59.2 percent) is much more successful than boxing, karate, kickboxing and kung fu, but it ranks behind shootfighting, sambo and wrestling, and it is only slightly ahead of pitfighting in terms of success in the octagon.
Table III shows how well different disciplines have fared in tournament finals, superfights and championship matches. Grappling styles, such as wrestling, shootfighting and jujutsu, are by far the most successful. American wrestlers, however, have dominated the tournaments, winning 11 finals, three superfights and two heavyweight championship bouts. Jujutsu, by contrast, has won only four tournament championships, and is 6-5 in these events overall.
The Art or the Artist?
Perhaps a more telling indication of wrestling's dominance in mixed-martial arts matches comes from a review of the 15 "winningest" fighters. These fighters are among the most successful in these competitions and have proved their ability in many high-level matches. By focusing specifically on them, the trap of including the records of less-experienced and lessqualified fighters is avoided.
As Table IV illustrates, grappling arts such as wrestling, shootfighting and jujutsu are among the most successful. Wrestling, however, is represented most often with five fighters in the top 10, ranking second, third, fifth and two at ninth. Jujutsu, by contrast, has only two fighters in the top 15, one ranking first and the other 10th. The success of several wrestlers supports the notion that wrestling is an effective method for use in reality-based events.
Ken Shamrock and Frank Shamrock have succeeded in mixed-martial arts competition because their art includes a variety of striking, grappling and submission techniques.
Finally, by examining the results from finals, championships and superfights that pitted wrestling against jujutsu (shown in Table V), it can be determined that wrestling has a 3-1 record against jujutsu.
Royce Gracie, the Anomaly
Brazilian-jujutsu expert Royce Gracie has achieved legendary status based on his tournament victories and remains the only undefeated tighter in the UFC (with more than 5 victories).
However, Gracie has not competed since the UFC V, and many are skeptical of his early success against unknowing opponents. For example, Kathy Long, a former kickboxing champion who now boxes professionally, said: "When the UFC started, the promoters claimed they were going to pit martial artists of different styles against each other. The individuals who represented the martial arts in the early UFCs were not up to par. So to have such an event serve as a showcase is ridiculous. ,3
Don "The Dragon" Wilson concurred: "There was only one person in the beginning who had experience at that type of fighting, and that was Royce Gracie. And, of course, that's why he won the first show so quickly and easily. But as it went on and fighters got experience, all of a sudden he was having draws and had to bow out one time (because of fatigue] .... He had the edge in the very beginning, but at this point, there are ,,4 no secrets to this style of competition .
Frank Shamrock, the current middleweight champion of the UFC, said: "No one knew anything about grappling when he was fighting. He caught everyone by surprise. Everyone is much more knowledgeable now, and I don't believe he would enjoy the same success."
Shootfighting Rules!
Overall, shootfighters-who employ a range of striking, grappling and submission tactics-are the most successful competitors in mixed-martial arts events when ranked by percentage. For example, shootfighting is second only to wrestling in total wins in championship and superfight matches, and three shootfighters rank in the top 15 fighters. It is the most successful style in championships and superfights, where it has achieved a record of 5-1 against wrestling and 2-0 against Brazilian jujutsu.
It is interesting to note that most of these top fighters are associated with Ken Shamrock's Lion's Den school and have experience in combat grappling. Their system has benefited substantially from the collaboration of many different martial artists, including Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock and former UFC and heavyweight kickboxing champion Maurice Smith. Throughout its evolution in the UFC, shootfighting has committed itself to developing counters and strategies against Brazilian jujutsu and wrestling.
Wrestling's Winning Ways
Why have wrestlers fared so well against jujutsu in UFCtype competitions? A variety of factors might account for this success. First, wrestlers have been able to counter the numerous takedowns employed by Brazilian-jujutsu practitioners. Not only are wrestlers highly trained and skilled in diverting shoots and throws, they also have the ability to employ takedowns and can use them to neutralize their opponents.
Second, the rules of the UFC have tended to favor wrestling more than jujutsu. The fact that wrestlers do not have to wear a uniform greatly assists them against martial artists. Wrestlers are used to employing takedowns without the benefit of a uniform or belt to grab, while many jujutsu tactics rely on the use of the uniform. (Some commentators have estimated that Brazilian jujutsu loses about 70 percent of its techniques when uniforms are not worn.)
Wrestling champion Mark Kerr has a 4-0 record in mixed martial arts competition.
Third, many Brazilian-jujutsu practitioners oppose the use of time limits. One popular tactic of theirs is to employ the guard to protect themselves and wait until their opponent has tired sufficiently to apply a submission hold . In Brazilian competitions, for example, there are accounts of some fights lasting more than three hours. Hence, when matches are only 10 or 15 minutes long, wrestlers can more easily control their Brazilian-jujutsu opponents without tiring.
Fourth, the use of the fence is opposed by most Brazilianjujutsu stylists, who believe that it allows their opponent to avoid being taken down and to gain leverage against submissions and reversals. Wrestlers who have trained for mixedmartial arts competitions are well aware of the advantages of the fence and use this as a tactic, whereas most Brazilianjujutsu practitioners do not train with the fence in mind because vale tudo (anything-goes) matches are held in a ring. Carlson Gracie and Mario Sperry have said they oppose the use of the fence because it prevents Brazilian-jujutsu fighters from displaying their full range of skills and techniques.'
No Respect
The UFC was initially developed to determine what works and what doesn't. Such events have proved-almost conclusively-that grappling styles have a better rate of success than do purely striking and stand-up styles. In spite of the accomplishment of wrestling in NHB events, many modern jujutsu practitioners hold a general disdain for American wrestling-just as Higashi did.
Rickson Gracie, for example, said: "You see big, strong wrestlers in these events who can control people, but they have not learned finishing holds. So to win their fights, they control and smash their opponent, which is different from locking, choking or subduing someone with clean techniques. The wrestlers can't finish their opponent in a skilled, smooth manner, so the fights get ugly."
If jujutsu is really superior to the techniques of the big, strong but "unskilled" wrestlers, it has not yet demonstrated it in mixed-martial arts events-with the exception of Royce Gracie's early UFC matches.
Don Frye (left, with referee John McCarthy) used his wrestling background to dominate his opponents in the UFC. Frye's record is currently 9-1.
Clear Conclusion
Throughout the history of the martial arts, the challenge match was used as a way of promoting different fighting systems and determining what works and doesn't work in "real fighting." Although mixed-martial arts events are an imperfect imitation of reality, they are the best alternative available for assessing different arts, and the effectiveness of the various arts must be judged from the available empirical evidence.
Even though successful fighters must rely on a mix of systems, the evidence indicates that wrestling provides a good base for mixed-martial arts competitions. Wrestlers can neutralize strikes by using shooting techniques to counter their opponent, and they can fight competently on the ground where most fights end. They also have excellent strength and conditioning.
Based on its accomplishment in the UFC and other similar events, wrestling provides an effective-but not necessarily superior-foundation for fighting and self-defense against any type of opponent. In the words of David "Tank" Abbott at the UFC XII, wrestling is truly "America's martial art."
was meint ihr dazu:
In his 1986 book, Western Boxing and Wrestling, John Gilbey contemplated how well different wrestling systems might fare in mixed-martial arts competitions. Although he noted the difficulty of changing styles for the practitioners of almost any discipline, he sided with the martial arts, particu- larly jujutsu.
Gilbey closed with a quote from Higashi, a Japanese jujutsu expert who spoke about the subject of wrestling vs. jujutsu in 1905: "American wrestlers are strong-much stronger than any of us pretend to be in muscular strength. After all, however, wrestling is wrestling. Against jujutsu, it is mere child's play. I have met a number of Western wrestlers, and they are as helpless as babes against jujutsu. And no one versed in the art of jujutsu is mad enough to expect anything else."'
Many of these suspicions seem to have been confirmed in recent mixed-martial arts competitions. Since the first Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) in 1993, Brazilian jujutsu has accumulated a certain fame in the mixed-martial arts community. Royce Gracie used this discipline to win three events (UFC 1, 11 and IV) and draw in a 35-minute superfight with Ken Shamrock in the UFC V. Other Brazilian martial artists also contributed to the prominence of jujutsu: Renzo and Ralph Gracie in the World Combat Championship and Extreme Fighting 1, 11, 111 and IV, respectively; Vitor Belfort in the UFC XII and XIII; and Marcus "Conan" Silveira in Extreme Fighting I and 11.
In fact, these Brazil ian-juj utsu stylists were so dominant at times that some observers contemplated whether they could ever be beaten. The impact of the Brazilian fighters on the martial arts has been enormous. Robert W. Young noted: "They have almost single-handedly forced the martial arts community to open its eyes with regard to the effectiveness of ground fighting. Thanks to them, a large percentage of the martial arts schools in this country now advertise instruction in ,,2 jujutsu, wrestling, judo or simply grappling. Given the profile of jujutsu fighters in mixed-martial arts events, the attention devoted to this style seems warranted.
Randy Couture (left), Black Belt's 1997 Full-Contact Fighter of the Year, quickly made a name for himself in mixed-martial arts competition by defeating Brazilian-jujutsu stylist Vitor Belfort and kickboxer Maurice Smith.
Statistics Don't Lie
When the overall record is considered, however, the success of Brazilian jujutsu is somewhat questionable. Table I, for example, ranks jujutsu as the No. 2 style with a record of 29-20-1, behind wrestling (44-21) and ahead of shootfighting (26-9-2). Moreover, Table II, which displays the winning percentages of various styles with at least 10 decisions, shows that jujutsu (59.2 percent) is much more successful than boxing, karate, kickboxing and kung fu, but it ranks behind shootfighting, sambo and wrestling, and it is only slightly ahead of pitfighting in terms of success in the octagon.
Table III shows how well different disciplines have fared in tournament finals, superfights and championship matches. Grappling styles, such as wrestling, shootfighting and jujutsu, are by far the most successful. American wrestlers, however, have dominated the tournaments, winning 11 finals, three superfights and two heavyweight championship bouts. Jujutsu, by contrast, has won only four tournament championships, and is 6-5 in these events overall.
The Art or the Artist?
Perhaps a more telling indication of wrestling's dominance in mixed-martial arts matches comes from a review of the 15 "winningest" fighters. These fighters are among the most successful in these competitions and have proved their ability in many high-level matches. By focusing specifically on them, the trap of including the records of less-experienced and lessqualified fighters is avoided.
As Table IV illustrates, grappling arts such as wrestling, shootfighting and jujutsu are among the most successful. Wrestling, however, is represented most often with five fighters in the top 10, ranking second, third, fifth and two at ninth. Jujutsu, by contrast, has only two fighters in the top 15, one ranking first and the other 10th. The success of several wrestlers supports the notion that wrestling is an effective method for use in reality-based events.
Ken Shamrock and Frank Shamrock have succeeded in mixed-martial arts competition because their art includes a variety of striking, grappling and submission techniques.
Finally, by examining the results from finals, championships and superfights that pitted wrestling against jujutsu (shown in Table V), it can be determined that wrestling has a 3-1 record against jujutsu.
Royce Gracie, the Anomaly
Brazilian-jujutsu expert Royce Gracie has achieved legendary status based on his tournament victories and remains the only undefeated tighter in the UFC (with more than 5 victories).
However, Gracie has not competed since the UFC V, and many are skeptical of his early success against unknowing opponents. For example, Kathy Long, a former kickboxing champion who now boxes professionally, said: "When the UFC started, the promoters claimed they were going to pit martial artists of different styles against each other. The individuals who represented the martial arts in the early UFCs were not up to par. So to have such an event serve as a showcase is ridiculous. ,3
Don "The Dragon" Wilson concurred: "There was only one person in the beginning who had experience at that type of fighting, and that was Royce Gracie. And, of course, that's why he won the first show so quickly and easily. But as it went on and fighters got experience, all of a sudden he was having draws and had to bow out one time (because of fatigue] .... He had the edge in the very beginning, but at this point, there are ,,4 no secrets to this style of competition .
Frank Shamrock, the current middleweight champion of the UFC, said: "No one knew anything about grappling when he was fighting. He caught everyone by surprise. Everyone is much more knowledgeable now, and I don't believe he would enjoy the same success."
Shootfighting Rules!
Overall, shootfighters-who employ a range of striking, grappling and submission tactics-are the most successful competitors in mixed-martial arts events when ranked by percentage. For example, shootfighting is second only to wrestling in total wins in championship and superfight matches, and three shootfighters rank in the top 15 fighters. It is the most successful style in championships and superfights, where it has achieved a record of 5-1 against wrestling and 2-0 against Brazilian jujutsu.
It is interesting to note that most of these top fighters are associated with Ken Shamrock's Lion's Den school and have experience in combat grappling. Their system has benefited substantially from the collaboration of many different martial artists, including Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock and former UFC and heavyweight kickboxing champion Maurice Smith. Throughout its evolution in the UFC, shootfighting has committed itself to developing counters and strategies against Brazilian jujutsu and wrestling.
Wrestling's Winning Ways
Why have wrestlers fared so well against jujutsu in UFCtype competitions? A variety of factors might account for this success. First, wrestlers have been able to counter the numerous takedowns employed by Brazilian-jujutsu practitioners. Not only are wrestlers highly trained and skilled in diverting shoots and throws, they also have the ability to employ takedowns and can use them to neutralize their opponents.
Second, the rules of the UFC have tended to favor wrestling more than jujutsu. The fact that wrestlers do not have to wear a uniform greatly assists them against martial artists. Wrestlers are used to employing takedowns without the benefit of a uniform or belt to grab, while many jujutsu tactics rely on the use of the uniform. (Some commentators have estimated that Brazilian jujutsu loses about 70 percent of its techniques when uniforms are not worn.)
Wrestling champion Mark Kerr has a 4-0 record in mixed martial arts competition.
Third, many Brazilian-jujutsu practitioners oppose the use of time limits. One popular tactic of theirs is to employ the guard to protect themselves and wait until their opponent has tired sufficiently to apply a submission hold . In Brazilian competitions, for example, there are accounts of some fights lasting more than three hours. Hence, when matches are only 10 or 15 minutes long, wrestlers can more easily control their Brazilian-jujutsu opponents without tiring.
Fourth, the use of the fence is opposed by most Brazilianjujutsu stylists, who believe that it allows their opponent to avoid being taken down and to gain leverage against submissions and reversals. Wrestlers who have trained for mixedmartial arts competitions are well aware of the advantages of the fence and use this as a tactic, whereas most Brazilianjujutsu practitioners do not train with the fence in mind because vale tudo (anything-goes) matches are held in a ring. Carlson Gracie and Mario Sperry have said they oppose the use of the fence because it prevents Brazilian-jujutsu fighters from displaying their full range of skills and techniques.'
No Respect
The UFC was initially developed to determine what works and what doesn't. Such events have proved-almost conclusively-that grappling styles have a better rate of success than do purely striking and stand-up styles. In spite of the accomplishment of wrestling in NHB events, many modern jujutsu practitioners hold a general disdain for American wrestling-just as Higashi did.
Rickson Gracie, for example, said: "You see big, strong wrestlers in these events who can control people, but they have not learned finishing holds. So to win their fights, they control and smash their opponent, which is different from locking, choking or subduing someone with clean techniques. The wrestlers can't finish their opponent in a skilled, smooth manner, so the fights get ugly."
If jujutsu is really superior to the techniques of the big, strong but "unskilled" wrestlers, it has not yet demonstrated it in mixed-martial arts events-with the exception of Royce Gracie's early UFC matches.
Don Frye (left, with referee John McCarthy) used his wrestling background to dominate his opponents in the UFC. Frye's record is currently 9-1.
Clear Conclusion
Throughout the history of the martial arts, the challenge match was used as a way of promoting different fighting systems and determining what works and doesn't work in "real fighting." Although mixed-martial arts events are an imperfect imitation of reality, they are the best alternative available for assessing different arts, and the effectiveness of the various arts must be judged from the available empirical evidence.
Even though successful fighters must rely on a mix of systems, the evidence indicates that wrestling provides a good base for mixed-martial arts competitions. Wrestlers can neutralize strikes by using shooting techniques to counter their opponent, and they can fight competently on the ground where most fights end. They also have excellent strength and conditioning.
Based on its accomplishment in the UFC and other similar events, wrestling provides an effective-but not necessarily superior-foundation for fighting and self-defense against any type of opponent. In the words of David "Tank" Abbott at the UFC XII, wrestling is truly "America's martial art."