Trick or Treat?

[Gin Lai]

YouTube - Ray Floro - Non Telegraphic Strike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV5TfZBB1Lo)

[SteFanJKD]

I would say it is a liitle bit of both.

This could either be considered ABD or it could be considered PIA. But whatever tactic is being used for it to be effective there has to be Non Telegrahic motion, Longest to the nearest, and if you add footwork to this equation you would have TWJKD ;)

This all about using Broken Rhytm/half Beat. I have used this tactic many times in Challenge fights, yeas, people have actually came down to my club and challenged me to fight.

I did exactly what was done in this clip. I asked "are you ready", and before he answered I hit my challenger and just continued hitting him.

I was of course told that I was cheating, that he was not reday, so we did it again, I asked, "are you ready........and continued hitting him :)

What happens here is attcking the opponets mind, the normal reaction is that when the question "are you ready" is asked of you, you will be expected to get a "full beat" time to get ready. If you hit the oppoenet on the half beat before he has answered, his mind is still occuoied with answering the question, not realy responding to your attack

So my answer is that what you see on this clip is no trick, it is simply using authentic JKD strategies mentally and physically. Most people think of a srategy like ABD and PIA as simply physical-physical. By that I mean a physical feint with a physical attack in PIA, a physical opening and a physical counter in ABD.

But JKD is much more than that, and that is what you see on this clip ;) That is what TWJKD is all about.

/SteFan

[stagediver]

Good post, thanks SteFan!

[Gin Lai]

I agree to your observation, Stefan.
Though to make it work, you need to have developed some quintessential attributes, like speed, structure, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, etc.
To get these to work for you, actually is the hardest part of the ´game´.

Best,
Michael

[SteFanJKD]

Though to make it work, you need to have developed some quintessential attributes, like speed, structure, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, etc.

You are absolutely right, but these are not qualities that make anything you train JKD, they are universal to all styles.

Then it might be that some styles put more effort on these qualities in a technique than others. My oppininion and experience is that when I traines Karate it was more important that I did the technique physically the correct way than actually knowing how to apply the technique with speed, rhytm, cordination, timing and distance.

This became very obvious at my Brown beelt graduation. When it came to the final test, the free sparring, everybody came to me and said
- stefan, this is only a graduation, go slow, don't hit as hard as you do.....

I kicked everybodys ass with somewhat bad Karate form, but when it came to actually getting the brown belt I hardly got it, My "Form" was not good enough, they didn't care that my speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance was so much better than everybody else.

This is when I knew that karate is not or me. I took my Black Belt and I have never trained Karate since the day I got my Black Belt. After this Brown Belt Gradutaion I took my first steps to JKD, I started training what was availbale in Scandinavia, JKD Concepts.

What the took me to Jun Fan JKD is another story, but after a few yeras I was pretty much back to my Brown Belt graduation. But this time I had a lot of speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, But I missed the training of a good structure.

/Stefan

[Tangkapan]

You are absolutely right, but these are not qualities that make anything you train JKD, they are universal to all styles.

Then it might be that some styles put more effort on these qualities in a technique than others. My oppininion and experience is that when I traines Karate it was more important that I did the technique physically the correct way than actually knowing how to apply the technique with speed, rhytm, cordination, timing and distance.

This became very obvious at my Brown beelt graduation. When it came to the final test, the free sparring, everybody came to me and said
- stefan, this is only a graduation, go slow, don't hit as hard as you do.....

I kicked everybodys ass with somewhat bad Karate form, but when it came to actually getting the brown belt I hardly got it, My "Form" was not good enough, they didn't care that my speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance was so much better than everybody else.

This is when I knew that karate is not or me. I took my Black Belt and I have never trained Karate since the day I got my Black Belt. After this Brown Belt Gradutaion I took my first steps to JKD, I started training what was availbale in Scandinavia, JKD Concepts.

What the took me to Jun Fan JKD is another story, but after a few yeras I was pretty much back to my Brown Belt graduation. But this time I had a lot of speed, rhythm, coordination, a good estimation of timing and distance, But I missed the training of a good structure.

/Stefan


HI Stefan..

may i ask where you see ABC or PIA?

it s a fine demo on not telegraphing a direct punch !!

So for the most it is SDA in terms speaking

Also there is no broken rhythm, for there is no initiation of a counter, no feinting or combination

Greetings
R...

[SteFanJKD]

The basic way of explaining it is that in ABC every hit in a combination is intended to strike. If there would be feints involved it woul be a Compound Indirect Attack

With a PIA only the last strike is intended to hit, if the initial movement, the feint, would move back, it would either be a Indirect Compoung or In direct Single attack

Di8rect as you move a limb more than one time, feinting or actually hitting, it will be a Compoung attack.

But as I said, a move could also be talking, showing an emotion that not indicate that a physical move is on the way, and therefore that according to me would be a Compound Attack

/steFan

[Tangkapan]

The basic way of explaining it is that in ABC every hit in a combination is intended to strike. If there would be feints involved it woul be a Compound Indirect Attack

With a PIA only the last strike is intended to hit, if the initial movement, the feint, would move back, it would either be a Indirect Compoung or In direct Single attack

Di8rect as you move a limb more than one time, feinting or actually hitting, it will be a Compoung attack.

But as I said, a move could also be talking, showing an emotion that not indicate that a physical move is on the way, and therefore that according to me would be a Compound Attack

/steFan

Well thats not was happened in the video...
Even on the YouTube post... it explains as non-telegraphic punching.
We could discuss hours on what he might have intended..
But the facts still remain in the visual observation.

Saying that every single strike is intended to be followd by a combination is not totally true. and there is a distinctive difference between feinting and PIA.
Like i worte before..
At best he is doing SDA if we speak in JKD terms. But even Boxers know how to not telegraph a punch.. This doesn't make a boxer a JKD man.

:-)

I think it is funny who almost every time a person goes beyond whats obvious and interprets something that isn't actually there unless you are there in front of this person. Than he can say.. i did this or that, but my intention was so and so...
We can never know... but speculation grows and grows..
To much energy is wasted on this..

[Tangkapan]

For instance..
If i see a guy on a video doing Wing Chun or Escrima or so..
I cannot truly say that this person is good or phony based on what i have seen in this clip.
I can also not interpret what he might wanted to do.
I actually need to be in front of him to see and embrace what he is doing.

Never judge a book by its cover.

In some clips you can see that the particular technique is not properly executed, or if its really really stupid, but thats all.

[SteFanJKD]

I only wrote what I saw from my JKD point ofview in the video since a question was asked.

What I saw was simply a little more than simply a SDA, and like you said, we cannot be sure what he himself was teaching.

I don't feel that energy is waited when we share oppinons on a subject. Like Bruce said "All type of knowledge means selfknowledge". We cab learn a lot about our own JKD by speculating on videoclips etc.

/SteFan

[angHell]

Sure its a trick (at least partly) - ad its also a breaking of rythm (off beat/ half beat) - it's mainly a psychological trick - he asks, ready, and right when the answer comes he attacks. First the answering person is busy with thinking about the question / answer while he startig his attack. Second hes talking while the attack is already going on. Answering on such kind of questions is normaly going on automaticly, but thinking about it goes on after the answer was thrown/said. But nobody can say, he hasn't answered before the attack comes - and third: its the destroying of rythm - Question (1), Answer (2) Hit (2,5).

That there are attributes a condition, they (he) must have hardly worked for, is no queston...

[Tangkapan]

I only wrote what I saw from my JKD point ofview in the video since a question was asked.

What I saw was simply a little more than simply a SDA, and like you said, we cannot be sure what he himself was teaching.

I don't feel that energy is waited when we share oppinons on a subject. Like Bruce said "All type of knowledge means selfknowledge". We cab learn a lot about our own JKD by speculating on videoclips etc.

/SteFan

Yep here i agree totally..
The Problem today is that too many people put way too much energy in Bruce'S philosophical approach then in it pysiological.
Well it's easier that way i think

[Gin Lai]

No need to get too scientific, imo.
It´s the distraction that does the ´trick.
Though set and ready, knowing he´s going to be hit, for a split second the receiver´s mind is still reflecting on the question asked (and further on choosing a possible answer), which is the moment to attack.
Try it out, it works nicely.
Ok, it sure helps to be a fast hitter, though.

[jpk@kkb]

It´s the distraction that does the ´trick.
Hmh, sorry, I donno nothing about JKD. But there is no trick in this video. The "victims" are dead from the start. We have a saying in an old manuscript that sounds like "who does not move is dead/ who moves still lives" ("wer do leit der ist tot / wer sich rüret der lebt noch "). That just means, if you rely only on reactions a somewhere trained opponent has any time of the world to hit you anywhere he wants. In 80% you are physically unable to react fast enough.

The talking and questioning ist just to bring the victim in a calm stance.

[Bearcat44]

The talking and questioning ist just to bring the victim in a calm stance.

Well, that's the trick or so called 'distraction'.

I think both of you are talking about the same thing, just naming it differently. ;)


And could someone please give me a quick briefing on the abbreviations ABC, PIA, SDA? What do they stand for, if they stand for something?

T H X! :)

[Tangkapan]

Well, that's the trick or so called 'distraction'.

I think both of you are talking about the same thing, just naming it differently. ;)


And could someone please give me a quick briefing on the abbreviations ABC, PIA, SDA? What do they stand for, if they stand for something?

T H X! :)

ABC Attack by Combination
PIA Progressive Indirect attack
SDA Single Direct Attack
ABD Attack by Drawin
HIA HAnd Immobilisation attack and FIA Foot.....

JKD therminology on the different ways of attack and the way they can occour

[Gin Lai]

SDA stands for "Simple Direct Attack, not "Single".

Nitpicking...

Michael

[Tangkapan]

SDA stands for "Simple Direct Attack, not "Single".

Nitpicking...

Michael

LOL sorry da muss ich widersprechen...

Gibts viele Quellen... zB Inosantos Philosophy Book 1976 Page 104
even more nidpicking.. LOL

SDA & SAA Single Direct Attack and Single ANgular Attack..

[Gin Lai]

Widersprich ruhig, Ralph, hast trotzdem nicht Recht; :D ausser in der Aussage, dass die Bezeichnung "single" tatsächlich in den meisten JKD Büchern anzutreffen ist.
Das rührt daher, dass Inosanto den Begriff in genau dem von dir zitierten Buch falsch übernommen hat und dieser in Folge entsprechende Verbreitung fand.
Wenn du Bruce Lee´s Originalaufzeichnungen recherchierst, wirst du feststellen, dass im Zusammenhang mit SDA oder SAA nicht an einer Stelle von "single" die Rede ist, sondern immer nur von "simple". Go check the records!
Ich hab inzwischen mit vielen Originalschülern über den Sachverhalt diskutiert und alle mussten einräumen, dass in BL´s Aufzeichnungen tatsächlich "simple" angeführt ist, dass sie aber in Inos Backyard SDA ímmer als ´Single Direct Attack´ charakterisiert haben.

Gruß,
Michael

[Gin Lai]

Guckstu:

29256

[Tangkapan]

Guckstu:

29256


Stimmt bei Angular ist es korrekt SAA


Wer sagt das Inosanto es falsch machte?
Lee hat in seiner entwicklung soviel benannt und hinterher wieder verworfen.
Das von Dir gezeigte BEispiel (Bild 2)gibts nochmal und da kommt SDA eigentlich gar nicht vor auch keine weitere erklärung.
John Little JKD seite 95
Und wenn man es ganz genau nimmt hat Lee kaum von SDA, aber oft von SAA gesprochen, geschrieben.
Nimmst DU zB Jeet Kune... wird er of als einzelner Angriff beschrieben, wird aber am effektivsten als Konter in den gegnerischen Angriff benutzt. Sonst wäre auch der NAme anders...

ICh denke es ist wichtig das man weiss worum es dabei geht..
Ist wie beim NAmen JKD.. nur eine Name oder eine Bezeichnung

Mir pers. würde SA genügen.. Ob es dabei single oder simple heißt ist egal, da es in beiden Fällen um einen einzelnen (einfachen) Angriff ohne Finte geht..
Ist auch in einem der zahllosen JKD Bücher benannt. War glaube ich auch J.Little..

Da wurde sogar von Attack by Disengagement usw. geredet..
Ich denke ein Statistiker könnte da noch mehr rausholen.. (was Bezeichnungen angeht)

[Gin Lai]

Klar, lässt in beide Richtungen viel Freiraum für allerlei Spekulationen. Soll auch keine Wertung mit verbunden sein.

Gruß,
Michael

[Tangkapan]

Klar, lässt in beide Richtungen viel Freiraum für allerlei Spekulationen. Soll auch keine Wertung mit verbunden sein.

Gruß,
Michael

Hab ich auch nicht so verstanden..

Mir pers. ist es völlig egal. Es muss funktionieren und fertig..
ICh bin auch keiner,der weil er jetzt mit Tommy zu tun hat, alle anderen als Mist hinstellt. Ich bin froh bei Dan und LArry gewesen zu sein und konnte da einiges lernen. Und für mich ist JKD ein beständiger Lernprozess der endet wenn ich in der Kiste liege.

[Gin Lai]

Diese Einstellung teile ich!

[Tangkapan]

Diese Einstellung teile ich!
Siehste wenn es lange genug und vernünftig hin und her geht klappts doch

[Bearcat44]

Danke für die Abkürzungs-Erläuterungen Tangkapan!

...und natürlich für euren kleinen Einblick in die Uneindeutigkeit mancher Abkürzungen. :D

[Tangkapan]

:d

[SteFanJKD]

And could someone please give me a quick briefing on the abbreviations ABC, PIA, SDA? What do they stand for, if they stand for something

I have a quote that I think is intresting

"It is okey to change ones style, but never change you basic Form, by changing style I mean changing plan of attack"
-Bruce Lee-

Intresting, so style is "plan of attack", not a style in the word of Karate, Kali and Krav maga..... One should never change the basic Form. What is the basic form in JKD, On Gurad,"all JKD techniques start and ends in On Guard, use tools that least deviate from on Guard.

This is why Bruce created the 5 ways off attack. he looked for "plan of attacks that he could change according to the circumstances and techniques that suited the JKD On Guard Fighting Stance

It is best to start from the firts "plan of attack. That would be the SDA (or SAA) That stands for simple or Single Direct attack. JKD is about Directnes and Simplicity. SDA is one single motion, no preparation, no feinting (that would make it an Single Indirect Attack)

If you try to hit him with one punch but you are being blocked, "change style# and by that he did not mean Mixing JKD wit Muay Thay, he meant stay with JKD, stay with on Guard, "change plan of attack". If one punch doesn't do the job, punch to times, and that would be a ABC (Attack by Combination)

Lets say he blocks all your punches. You could try feinting before your ABS, but then you would be doing Indirect Compound attack, wouldn't you ;)

So JKD is alla about daily Decrease, decrease you Indirect Attack to a Progressive Indirect Attack (PIA) This means that 2 or more motions are Progressing towards the target but only the last is intended to hit.

And if that doesn't work, ask yourself "what the h--l am i doing here, i'd better run away ;)

What I am explaining here is the basic "Form" of SDA,ABC, PIA. We need "form" to get to "No Form", otherwise you are simply no "form" or "without Form"

This is the theory, you need a good JKD instructor to show you this in action, and then you needed hours of repetition to get from "form" to 2no Form"

/SteFan

[Tangkapan]

100% Great explanation.

You need form to get away from it..

Even the great artists like VanGogh learned how to mix paintings, the different brushes a,s,o,
later they didn't need to bother, because its was a part of them.

[Bearcat44]

Thank you very much for the thorough (background-) explanation, Stefan!

This helps a JKD-novice, like I am, a lot.

[jpk@kkb]

Well, that's the trick or so called 'distraction'.

I think both of you are talking about the same thing, just naming it differently. ;)

nope, definitely not. I am talking about measure, he is talking about operation mindfuck. :cool:

[angHell]

Du redest über dass Maß?

[jpk@kkb]

Ja, tue ich "A fighter should stay just out of distance unless he chooses to close it himself". Wenn A still steht und B die Reichweite unterschreitet, dann darf sich A nicht wundern, wenn's was auf die Nase gibt. ;-)

YouTube - Ray Floro - Non Telegraphic Strike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV5TfZBB1Lo)
In dem Video sieht man sehr schön, wie Raymond Floro vorab beim ersten Kandidaten die Distanz checkt. Dann geht er auf die Hacke und lehnt sich ein wenig nach hinten. Und mit ein wenig Schaukelei kommt er noch näher.

Die Show kann man auch aufführen, wenn der andere weiß, dass es was auf die Nase gibt. Das hat alles nichts mit "telegrafieren" zu tun. Ganz im Gegenteil Ray Floro telegrafiert wie ein Weltmeister. Vor jedem Schlag schaukelt er schön nach vorne und hängt die Schultern vor. Doch das macht er während er labert und niemand achtet auf die Körpersprache und die Unterschreitung der Distanz dabei.

Ray ist ein olympischer Fechter nach italienischer Schule, der hat kein Problem damit, eine Distanz perfekt einzuschätzen und die Blößen explosiv auszunutzen. Das hat alles nichts mit Telegrafieren zu tun. Es geht nur darum: wie weit ist die Schulter meines Gegners von meiner Nase entfernt bzw. wie schnell kann er sie in Reichweite bringen.

Ist der Gegner in Reichweite oder kommt er rein, dann haue sofort zu oder vergrößere die Distanz erneut. Da Rays Opfer aber still steht und sich nicht bewegt, ist er "tod" bevor der Schlag überhaupt kommt.

[angHell]

yo, kann man imo so stehen lassen. Dann wäre aber vll. Distanz(gefühl) das richtigere Wort gewesen - hab ahlt nicht verstanden, was Du sagen willst...

[SteFanJKD]

nope, definitely not. I am talking about measure, he is talking about operation mindfuck.

That was very mature, "operation mindfuck" you are obviously guessing and making up your owb JKD vocabalary. there are some on every Forum ;)

No problems, I am okey with whatever makes some one feel god about their own ideas and oppinions. Its just knowledge to me.

/SteFan

[SteFanJKD]

Back to the subject


Yes, I do, "A fighter should just stay out of distance unless he chooses to close it himself." If A is stationary and B is below the range, then A should not be surprised if that's music to the nose. ;-)

YouTube - Ray Floro - Non Telegraphic Strike
In the video it looks very nice, check out how Raymond Floro advance from the first candidate distance. Then he goes on the hoe and leans back a little. And with a little rocking it comes closer.

The show can perform well when the other knows that what is on the nose. This has everything to do nothing "telegraph" with. On the contrary, Ray Floro telegraphed like a champ. Before every shot he rocks forward and hangs beautifully from the shoulders. But he does while he babbles and no one pays attention to body language and below the distance.

Ray is an Olympic fencers in the Italian school, has no problem to estimate a distance perfect and take advantage of the explosive pelts. This has nothing to do with telegraphing everything. It's all about how far the shoulder is my opponent away from my nose and how quickly he can get in range.

Is the enemy within range or is he in, then haue at once or increase the distance again. Since Ray's victims but stands still and not moving, he's "death" comes before the strike at all.


Before every shot he rocks forward and hangs beautifully from the shoulders. But he does while he babbles and no one pays attention to body language and below the distance.

That is why I concentrated on the "babble", you are yourself saying that the babble is what enables him hide his bodylanguage. Therefore I still say that he was doing a kind of ABD to draw the attention to his word, draw him to not concentrate on the attack itself, to be able to hide his intentions with the body.

I like this little motion before a punch. Especially in SDA it is a very good way to "Intentially Telegraph for more power" and still keep deceptiveness. This is a big part of the small Phasic motion that is part of the JKD On Guard. A small Bob&Weaving motion is perfekt for the SDA with a Lead hook.

What do you mean when you say that yoau are talking about measure? I could not understand what you mean when you said that "I am talking about measure, he is talking about operation mindfuck. "

/SteFan

[angHell]

he means distance - cause in that distance (where this punch can hit without body movement) nobody can defend it - not a (mind)trick - hes loos in the situation before he can do anything - I think that it what he means...

[Gin Lai]

It needs more than just the right distance. If it wouldn´t be for Ray Floro´s speed, timing and deceptiveness (by giving a false impression of when the attack is launched), it´s not unlikely that an attack from this distance can be blocked.

[jpk@kkb]

That was very mature, "operation mindfuck" you are obviously guessing and making up your owb JKD mature. there are some on every Forum ;)

No problems, I am okey with whatever makes some one feel god about their own ideas and oppinions. Its just knowledge to me.

/SteFan
Ah, sorry, has nothing to do with JKD notions. Operation Mindfuck is based on Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea in The Illuminatus! Trilogy. I used it as a synonym for double distraction - just a joke. Ray ist hiding his intention in the term "non telegraphic strike" and the simplicity of the attack by talking and joking.
And I post in this thread because Ray Floro is just fencing in this video. Moving typically like a sport fencer sneaking into reach and then making the point. My JKD knowledge is just reading the BL books and having some lessons. So I do not practice JKD or the like (beside *ing *ung) and for this I call myself untaught.

If you include "sneaking into fighting distance by joking an babbling" into an attack by combination, you are probably right.

@Gin Lai: yes, that may be true. He is somewhere boasting "I had one of the quickest and most explosive step forward-lunges in the sport, and my counter attacks were lighting fast." Beeing fast and checking the distance in the first time, gives him some advantage. After all, he puts his reputation at risk with someone filming.

@angHell: thx for translating - you got my point.

[quirl]

A short comment on the single-or simple- discussion:
As far as I know, single is used these days by Dan, because simple was often missinterpreted as easy. It was changed to single, so everybody understands what it means.

[Gin Lai]

"These days"?
The first reference I know of mentioning "single" attack is on page 104 in Dan Inosanto's book "Jeet Kune Do, The Art and Philosophy of Bruce Lee" from 1980.
There it says, "Single angular attack and its converse, single direct attack,..."
Since Dan is the source of JKD for most people, I think it is comprehensible that the term got widely spread from then on.

Michael

[Tangkapan]

Lets be honest...
Is it really the point if SDA means single or simple??
Or is it still the point that Dan pointed it out like one label, and since everybody is hyping about concepts or original, that everything Dan taught is being questioned?
As longs as people know what their talking about and what it is,
the "correct" translation of the words are not important.

i could be labeled as 123 and it would not matter, as long the meaning understanding and application is clear...

Its like the rest... just a name... don't fuss over it..

[Gin Lai]

For nitpicking me, actu***y, there´s still an essential differentiation, cause "single" (quantity) doesn´t necessarily imply that it is "simple" (quality) in execution!
For example, I might use a spinning back kick to illustrate a single attack, but in my opinion it wouldn´t be a simple technique like, say, a lead leg straight kick, which from a JKD standpoint appears to be the more suitable choice.
Simple inherits much more than single.
No?
Other than that, I´m with you, that "Namen sind Sch*** und Rauch". :)

And I don´t have anything against Dan Inosanto - on the contrary!

Gruß,
Michael

[SteFanJKD]

Is it re***y the point if SDA means single or simple??



Its like the rest... just a name... don't fuss over it..

This is an attitude that i think has made JKD what it is, why Linda took the decision to do something. Not talking about it, not knowing what it is you will always be "without form" not "No form". My personal oppinion is that people have this attitude as an excuse that "they don't know anything about it)

"Single" simply menas "one". Therefore Single Direct atack would mean "One Direct Attack". "Simple" means "Easy" and therefore it could be c***ed "Easy Direct Attack"

Wel for some people a " sidekick. spinning sidekick- jumpspinning Backfist" combination could be easy and they say that this is a SDA, for others, like me I say that 2 is less than 1 and this is daily decrease, so i go with the Simplest thing to do is 1 technique.

For the understanding of JKD we must openly talk about this, share experience, not seeing knowledge and understanding as something that is a waist of tie and we should be sparring instead.


he means distance - cause in that distance (where this punch can hit without body movement) nobody can defend it - not a (mind)trick - hes loos in the situation before he can do anything - I think that it what he means...

Then I would say what a stupid video to make. The only thing it proves to me is that he is not fast enough to shown the principle from the correct distance. It was my mistake, I did not concentrate on the distance.

If I do I would say from a close distance you can pretty much score a hit with anything. you can telegraph a punch from the Hip and still score, it proves nothing.

But if take it to JKD Fighting meausere. If he would be in a JKd Fighting Distance ad demonstrate this punch I would say he is doing the ABD "mind fucking" (and know that you have explained your intentions with using the word, it is actu***y nice little word ;). Non Telegraphic, that is oe of the components in a SDA should have no preparatory motion physical or "mindfucking"

/SteFan

[Gin Lai]

Sure one could make up any suitable explanation to prove one´s points.
Like I said, single is just one factor that is included in SDA, but Bruce Lee meant more than just a technique to be singularly executed.
I discussed this with Ted Wong, btw, and he wholeheartedly agreed. He even looked it up in Bruce Lee´s original notes and confirmed!

From Bruce Lee´s notes on SDA:

"All direct and indirect attacks composed of a single movement are called ´simple attacks´ because their object is to go to the target by the most direct route." (In relation to my example, a spinning back kick is neither simple - at least not for the average person - nor direct.)
"It will often surprise the opponent, especially after a series of false attacks and feints have been executes, so that the defender is subconsciously expecting a preparation or more complex movement and fails to react in time to the swift and unannounced simple movement."

M.

[jpk@kkb]

Mindfucking Compound Attacks - MCA - sounds nice to me :D . A lot of the masters do them to ensure their pupils, that they have superior abilities. Another one I seen often: use formal and natural habits, like leaning forward in a conversation. Start to speak silently, lean a bit forward, your opponent will do the same and bamm. You are correct, SteFan. It is stupid, to put these demonstrations on youtube, where everybody can do an analysis. But on the other hand. Using distraction and habits to overcome an opponent is a legal and good thing in the art of warfare and fighting. As long as you explain your pupils correctly what you are doing.
I am off. If there is no other fencer here, who is claiming to demonstrate an non-telegraphic strike.

jp

ps
A non telegraphic strice for me includes closing the distance and strike in the same unexpected move to a ready and moving opponent. this strike must not hit, there is no rule in the world, that garantees that. but it must bring pressure and supprise to him, so I am able to finish him properly. I did not see that in any of the youtube videos so far. ;-)

[Tangkapan]

Sure one could make up any suitable explanation to prove one´s points.
Like I said, single is just one factor that is included in SDA, but Bruce Lee meant more than just a technique to be singularly executed.
I discussed this with Ted Wong, btw, and he wholeheartedly agreed. He even looked it up in Bruce Lee´s original notes and confirmed!

From Bruce Lee´s notes on SDA:

"All direct and indirect attacks composed of a single movement are called ´simple attacks´ because their object is to go to the target by the most direct route." (In relation to my example, a spinning back kick is neither simple - at least not for the average person - nor direct.)
"It will often surprise the opponent, especially after a series of false attacks and feints have been executes, so that the defender is subconsciously expecting a preparation or more complex movement and fails to react in time to the swift and unannounced simple movement."

M.

yep
i try not to be too distracted by nomenclature or philosophy. For me its more important being able to do it. knowing what i do.

[Gin Lai]

...to where it all shall lead to.

Amen, brother! :)

Gruß,
Michael

[Tangkapan]

...to where it all shall lead to.

Amen, brother! :)

Gruß,
Michael

time we meet...
about 4 weeks

[SteFanJKD]

i found this clip. At 6.35 you will see tghis Bobbing/Weaving to be able to telegraphe with actually not telegraphing

YouTube - SteFanJKD/Sweden; Keypoints of Trapping 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTv6UXFRkM&feature=related)