Was ist das?

[Saarbrigga]

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[cbJKD Wilfried]

Hahahaha,
zumindest ist eine meine Art von Humor.

:D

Gruß Wilfried

[re:torte]

das ist Wissenschaft....

[jkdberlin]

Nice :)

[Gin Lai]

...und was, wenn der Angreifer auf Drogen ist, nur noch verschrumpelte Rosinen, bzw. gar keine Cojónes mehr hat, ein Suspensorium trägt, schmerzunempfindlich, Ninja oder ein Hologramm ist, "Butterbean" heißt und mich mit ABD reingelegt hat?
Noch viele Unbekannte in der Gleichung...

[SteFanJKD]

Well, we all know that groinkicks/attcks doesn't work, that it is no factor in tournamnets like UFC. Therefore this must only be a joke :)

You asked what this was. THIS IS JKD, it is a simple solution to a problem. It is one of the primary targhets to go for in JKD. You are caught in a headlock, go fopr the groin. Somebody grabs yo, go for the groin. You want to throw somebody to the ground, go for the groin.....

I am not saying that the grouin, the eyes etc are the ultimate weapon or solution to any prolem. I am only saying that it is a great equaicer. Take somweone with 10 years og Grappling experinece, I belive that adding groin/eyeattcks will greatly affect your chances if you only have 5 years of Grappling experience when you face a graopler on the street.

And yes, in UFC would get my ass kicked with only 5 years of Grappling experinece since I can't use my equaliser. And yes, If I can do groin/eyeattacks as equaliser, so can a grapopler with 10 yeras experience. What that tells me is
- Why should he need to use grouin/eyeattcks if his grappling is all he need to beat siomeone who uses them as equalicers.

Everybody who follows UFC, pride have seen what shots to the groin and eyes by m,istaker do. Look at this clip and thinkabout what would hapen if the strategy was to attck these targets with full powerr

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Here are some more "easy ging" groin attacks from various movies

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[SteFanJKD]

...und was, wenn der Angreifer auf Drogen ist, nur noch verschrumpelte Rosinen, bzw. gar keine Cojónes mehr hat, ein Suspensorium trägt, schmerzunempfindlich, Ninja oder ein Hologramm ist, "Butterbean" heißt und mich mit ABD reingelegt hat?
Noch viele Unbekannte in der Gleichung...

A very good point of view. My answer is that I would still not take him to the ground and finish him with a choke, armbar or hold him in my guard until the police arrive.

I would still go for the groin, probably the eyes if he s o drugs because it will cause the eyes to be blinded by tears automatically apering and affecting his sight. Then I would do my "Ben Johnsson on anabolic sterouids" 100 meters run away from there.

If I would got for a limb, I would break it, not control it. There are no locks in JKD, only breaks ;)

/SteFan

[jkdberlin]

Why all this Grappling/MMA bickering? By the way, Burton Richardson is the trainer of a very successfull MMA and Grappling Team with at least one fighter in the UFC. Don't get the reason why you are coming up with all these MMA/Grappling stuff...something pathological?

[SteFanJKD]

I love Grappling and MMA. All I want to stress is that BJJ and what happens a lot on the ground in Grappling is not what I consider selfdefense.

I know that Burton is a good Grappler. He is also a good silat and kali man. All I am saying is that my intrest in Grappling and Burton is purely for JKD, and >i don't consider JKD to be his strongest side.

My oppinion is that no matter how effective your Grappling is, grappling is never a JKD choice. JKD is a non grappling art, JKD is a self defense art. I also belive that the reson many are upset when the subject of if what we see in UFC, BJJ and MMA on the ground is the most effective method on the street is becuase they know that the last place you want to be in self defense is on the ground, and all that ground knowledge they spend so much time on is worthless in self defense. It could actually get them in far more trouble than they are if they go for that double leg takedown that works so well in the Octagon while they are out in the street.

You can interopretate it as I am putting Grappling/MMA down. I am only saying what I belive when it comes to self defense Grappling/MMA is not one of my first choices.

Sure. i know that a godd MMA practitioner is very good att Ground and pound, and that part is what I consider is worth something in Self defense. But as far as BJJ who goes for a 100% Grappling startegy, I would not use any of it in self defense, No less have any of my daughters train it for sself defense.

I teach my daughter ground and pound and hitting the groin and going for the eyes and run away

/SteFan

[Bearcat44]

Ein doch sehr unterhaltsamer Thread...

...and a very good Groin-Beating-Compilation on top. One can almost feel the pain... :D

[Globetrotter]

All I want to stress is that BJJ and what happens a lot on the ground in Grappling is not what I consider selfdefense.



:rolleyes: With respect to a former entry in the KKB.

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[cbJKD Wilfried]

Didnt Sifu Ted Wong have his own anti-grappling/grappling approach?

I can only say that at the last annual TWJKD seminar in Tulsa, where Ted Wong and Allen Joe supervised the teachings, Rodney taught a segment of his personal grappling approach which he calls "non classical grappling".

Sifu Ted liked it very much and encouraged us to train groundfighting, because he thought it to be very important.

The only thing he said was that we should always remember that grappling or better groundfighting was not a part of Jeet Kune Do when Bruce was still alive and while vital, we should keep it seperated when teaching or talking about Jeet Kune Do.

While i personally agree that groin/eye attacks might be your first line of defense i wouldnt mind taking somebody down and choking him out, which can be a matter of seconds.

As with everything else, environment and situation dictate tactics. Would i try taking somebody down and choking him out if i see i can dominate standing up? No. Would i try it when i can reach and hit groin and eyes? No.
Would i try it if i end up in a clinch or i land on the ground? YES.

I think everybody should train in groundfighting. It´s not Jeet Kune Do but you decide if you have options on the ground or not.

One of the main philosphies of JKD is to be able to constantly adapt to what is. While in the 60s / 70s a lot of what "was" when you fought another martial artist was probably Karate-type blocks and boxers, today it might be a mix of Thaiboxing/Boxing and some form of groundfighting.

So we have to look for solutions in the JKD system and get familiar with the nowadays common attacks.

I think that is the way for every JKD man to go. Staying true to the root and keeping the original art alive, while expanding it for yourself and make it "modern attack proof" with as little deviation as possible.

Edit: the same applies to weapons training. While you dont have to formerly study a traditional stick or knife art, knowledge might come in handy or save your ass.
Wilfried

[jkdberlin]

Well, Stefan, I wanted to answer your post on a sentence to sentence basis...but then...your post is so full of inaccuracies, misunderstanding, wrong ormissing definition...okay, be it. That's your definition of JKD, Self Defense and Grappling/BJJ/MMA. Thanks god it's not mine, nor the ones of good JKD / Self Defense instructors. I don't want to get into that discussion anymore. Reality has shown me diffenrent. But that is smply my experience and the knowledge I gained from JKD instructors.

Greets

[Tangkapan]

@Stefan

Its not a good attribute to point out what one should do in order of JKD and Selfdefense..

JKD is a strict fighting method. and yes you should not aim for the ground..
Understood...
But you can't ignore the fact that the maingoal, knocking one out, is not always achieved.
You could stumble, slip or something and then it makes total sense to know your way around the floor.
The Person, and / or Attacker will dictate a part of your way of response.

ANd lets be totally honest, only fools will believe that a good grappler is only good in grappling and moving around on the floor. Usually experienced grapplers are physically fit and surely can take some heat.

And to make JKD work one should go the extra mile and put in a lot of effort.
If you don't do those 1000 punches a day, dont expect a positive outcome in a fight. Be it a grappler, a boxer or whatever. Style only is a part of the whle thing.
Doing JKD is not a joker when it comes to fighting, because JKD wont take the physical damage... you and your body will.

[angHell]

To complete the vids about attacks to the groin:

YouTube - Sports Science: "World Record Kick to the Groin" Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7gnB31NnI)


pB7gnB31NnI


YouTube - Sports Science: "World Record Kick to the Groin" Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86cQobU-n4)

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YouTube - a tribute to groin shots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byy0oSL53CU)


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YouTube - UFC 4 Legal Groin Shots! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Mva-3n7TY)

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and I wondered, nobody says that all groundfighting-methods are about controlling whos up and whos down and especially who gets down.

Slam!

YouTube - my top 5 mma slams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETG8aXVgvhU)

ETG8aXVgvhU

And stefan, you missed the aesthetic groinshots from fist of legend:

YouTube - Jet Li vs. Japanese School HD Quality (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l5SR0C1150)

watch in Full HD! :)

[Bearcat44]

To complete the vids about attacks to the groin:

YouTube - Sports Science: "World Record Kick to the Groin" Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7gnB31NnI)


YouTube - Sports Science: "World Record Kick to the Groin" Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86cQobU-n4)

Die Schmerzrezeption so zu trainieren, dass man keinen oder kaum Schmerz spürt ist eine Sache, die auftretenden, physikalischen Kräfte dabei aber völlig ignorieren zu können eine andere. Sprich: Ich glaube nicht, dass der Tritt da in dem Video keinerlei medizinisch relevante Konsequenzen auslöst. Irgendwas muss dabei doch kaputt gegangen sein oder eben schon bei den tausenden Tritten vorher (wer macht sowas freiwillig? :ups:) sich verabschiedet haben?

Jemand schon Erfahrungen in die Richtung gemacht? ;)

[Kraken]

Well, we all know that groinkicks/attcks doesn't work, that it is no factor in tournamnets like UFC. Therefore this must only be a joke :)

Groin attacks are greatly overrated!

Statistics show, that almost 50% of all violent crimes are commited under the influence of drugs, such as alcohol and cocaine.

We must estimate, that a suspect, under the influence of cocaine or alcohol, has much of a reduced feeling of pain. I'd almost call it numb.

I've seen cocaine-users, continueing to fight with a broken arm, not even careing about, still trying to hit with it. Seen Guys not even reacting to getting peeper sprayed.

So, everything that is just bringing pain and no stopping damage... can vary greatly in it's effectiveness! It may take down one in the first shot, it may have absolutely no impact on another aggressor.

And by the way: Not only drugs.. but already the case of extreme anger can reduce the sensibility for pain in a way, one almost can't imagine. The sensibility bases widely upon you mindset. Once your set to "kill" pain will just not affect you.

But no Drug in de World can protect you from being knocked out! Or getting choked out..... bceause these are mechanical problems to the body... there's the point, where you can't take anymore, no matter what your state of mind is.



You asked what this was. THIS IS JKD, it is a simple solution to a problem. It is one of the primary targhets to go for in JKD. You are caught in a headlock, go fopr the groin. Somebody grabs yo, go for the groin. You want to throw somebody to the ground, go for the groin.....

What will the effect be?

Will he release... or will he be shocked and just ripp as hard as he can, causing serious damage to your neck?

Or will he get freakin' pissed and kick your ass, while you are still wondering about why it's not as effective as your teacher has told you ;)



I am not saying that the grouin, the eyes etc are the ultimate weapon or solution to any prolem. I am only saying that it is a great equaicer. Take somweone with 10 years og Grappling experinece, I belive that adding groin/eyeattcks will greatly affect your chances if you only have 5 years of Grappling experience when you face a graopler on the street.

I honestly don't think, you have much chance to grab my balls, while I'm throwing you on the pavement, and kicking the shit out of you. Or sitting on top of you and breaking all the little tiny bones in one's face.

Your hands will just try to protect your face, and not a single thought will be spend on how to grab my balls without completely losing your protection which anyways is impossible.

So, also THIS is not as easy, as it seems in theoretical thoughts, or in friendly sparring-Situations, when you grab the groin-protector and say: "haha, got your balls, in reality it would be over" Because most likely, it's not!



Everybody who follows UFC, pride have seen what shots to the groin and eyes by m,istaker do. Look at this clip and thinkabout what would hapen if the strategy was to attck these targets with full powerr

This is a widespread misunderstanding!

The reaction you see in a fighter, when he get's nut-kicked during a fight is easy to explain: He SHOWS that his opponent did an illegal technique, that makes his opponent look bad in the eyes of the judges. And, even more important, he get's chance to breathe!

This reaction you see BECAUSE it is forbidden, to hit to the nuts!

Here you see, what happens, if it's allowed, to hit to the balls:

YouTube - UFC 4 Legal Groin Shots! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Mva-3n7TY)

NOTHING! ;)

[angHell]

Die Schmerzrezeption so zu trainieren, dass man keinen oder kaum Schmerz spürt ist eine Sache, die auftretenden, physikalischen Kräfte dabei aber völlig ignorieren zu können eine andere. Sprich: Ich glaube nicht, dass der Tritt da in dem Video keinerlei medizinisch relevante Konsequenzen auslöst. Irgendwas muss dabei doch kaputt gegangen sein oder eben schon bei den tausenden Tritten vorher (wer macht sowas freiwillig? :ups:) sich verabschiedet haben?

Jemand schon Erfahrungen in die Richtung gemacht? ;)

Erfahrungen nicht, aber sie erklären es ja im vid. Angeblich hat durch die Abhärtung und tausende (ioch glaube um 5000) Tritte langsam angefangen ein Schutzhülle, also so ähnlich wie bei gebrochenen Knochen die sich im weiter verstärken durch kleine Verletzungen... umd die Hoden gebildet, und angeblich sind die Dinger immernoch voll funktionsfähig.

Das ist halt Combat Ki! :D

[JunFan]

Erfahrungen nicht, aber sie erklären es ja im vid. Angeblich hat durch die Abhärtung und tausende (ioch glaube um 5000) Tritte langsam angefangen ein Schutzhülle, also so ähnlich wie bei gebrochenen Knochen die sich im weiter verstärken durch kleine Verletzungen... umd die Hoden gebildet, und angeblich sind die Dinger immernoch voll funktionsfähig.

Das ist halt Combat Ki! :D

testen will ich es nicht!

[amasbaal]

so geht das:

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:ups:

[angHell]

Ehrlich gesagt sehen die v.a. bei den letzten 3 Tritten von der Seite, aus als wären sie abgestoppt - sieht man da ganz gut.

Im GGs zum world rekord, wo er noch härter als in den dummy tritt... :ups:
Man sieht es und man hat es gemessen. Nichtsdestotrotz krasses training - da steht testicles, also Hoden. Weiß jmd von euch, ob die Dinger (auch die Gewichte und was die so machen) nur an den Hoden gehangen werden? Oder auch an den Penis?