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Baphomet
25-01-2005, 17:13
kann mir hier jemand einen link für nen guten, wissenschaftlichen und seriösen artikel geben, wo erklärt wird, dass man bei moderatem kickbox-training keinen dauerhaften hirnschaden davonträgt, zumindest nicht mehr als bei kopfball training?

klingt blöde... :o das ist aber kein witz. meine mutter hat heute zum ersten mal mein 1wöchiges veilchen gesehen und sich fürchterlich aufgeregt weil sie meint, ich würde mein hirn zerstören. das argument geht mir dermassen auf die nerven, dass ich ihr nun das gegenteil erklären will.

eure hilfe ist gefragt :cool:

Tornado
25-01-2005, 17:47
kann mir hier jemand einen link für nen guten, wissenschaftlichen und seriösen artikel geben, wo erklärt wird, dass man bei moderatem kickbox-training keinen dauerhaften hirnschaden davonträgt, zumindest nicht mehr als bei kopfball training?

klingt blöde... :o das ist aber kein witz. meine mutter hat heute zum ersten mal mein 1wöchiges veilchen gesehen und sich fürchterlich aufgeregt weil sie meint, ich würde mein hirn zerstören. das argument geht mir dermassen auf die nerven, dass ich ihr nun das gegenteil erklären will.

eure hilfe ist gefragt :cool:

Sag Ihr doch einfach, dass Du eh kein Hirn hättest und daher nix kaputt gehen könnte :D

Baphomet
25-01-2005, 18:00
so auf die art hab ich schon verzucht zu argumentieren, das lässt sie nicht gelten. sie meint natürlich, ihr kind hätte eine riesenintelligenz, wäre nur zu dumm, sie zu nutzen und würde diese jetzt auch noch kaputtmachen :D

Mitsuomi
25-01-2005, 18:00
Sag Ihr doch einfach, dass Du eh kein Hirn hättest und daher nix kaputt gehen könnte :D

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :halbyeaha :halbyeaha :halbyeaha :halbyeaha

Mono
25-01-2005, 19:25
Tut mir leid dir das mitzuteilen - aber die Medizinischen Studien unterstützen eher deine Mutter...

Auch im Amateurbereich des Boxens und Kickboxens sind Langzeitschäden am Gehirn möglich und das Risiko erhöht...

(Zu den "Freizeitsportlern" gibts leider keine entsprechenden Abstracts...)

Vieleicht solltest du zum Cardio-Kickboxen ala "Tae-Bo" wechseln - wie du im ersten Artikel lesen kannst, machst du dir dabei "nur" den Körper kaputt und nicht den Kopf! :D

Viel Spass beim Lesen!
Vieleicht findest du noch was was dir weiterhilft - einige schreiben über die "Intensitäts-Abhängigkeit" von Verletzungen...vieleicht hilft dir das weiter!

_________________________________________________
Incidence of injury in kickboxing participation.
Romaine LJ, Davis SE, Casebolt K, Harrison KA.
Department of Movement Studies and Exercise Science, East Stroudsburg University of Pennsylvania, East Stroudsburg, PA 18301, USA. blromaine@enter.net

Cardio kickboxing classes have become a popular form of exercise to enhance fitness. This study surveyed kickboxing participants and instructors to ascertain the severity, type, and incidence of injuries sustained while performing cardio kickboxing exercise. The respondents consisted of 77.4% instructors and 29.3% participants with a mean age of 32.29 years (+/-8.98 years). Injury from kickboxing exercise was reported by 29.3% of the respondents, 31% of the instructors, and 15.5% of the participants. The most common site of injury for instructors was the back, followed by the knee, hip, and shoulder. The most common site of injury for participants was the back, knee, and ankle. Strains were the most common type of injury reported, followed by sprains and tendinitis. More than half of the injuries reported were new injuries (64%), with almost 59% of the total injuries reported causing a disruption of the normal exercise routine or an alteration of normal daily activities. Instructors who reported using music speeds greater than 140 beats per minute had a higher incidence of injury, compared with instructors who used music between 125 and 139 beats per minute. The wrist and elbow had the highest percentage of new injuries reported. This study suggests that kickboxing exercise can be a safe form of exercise for fitness purposes. Keeping music speeds below 140 beats per minute and limiting the number of kickboxing sessions per week may help to reduce injury rates.



A prospective study of injuries sustained during competitive muay thai kickboxing.
Gartland S, Malik MH, Lovell M.
From the Department of Orthopaedics, Withington Hospital, Manchester, United Kingdom.

OBJECTIVE:: To investigate prospectively the type and rate of injuries sustained during amateur Muay Thai competition. DESIGN:: Prospective cohort study collection of data following clinical examination. SETTING:: Amateur Muay Thai competitions in the United Kingdom organized by the International Amateur Muay Thai Federation. PARTICIPANTS:: Amateur Muay Thai boxers. Both sexes. Lightweight to super heavyweight. RESULTS:: There were 92 participants, 12 females and 82 males. The average age was 17.3 years, and the average previous number of bouts was 3.9. A total of 588.5 minutes of competition time was assessed during a total of 10 events. Injury rates were 1.3 injuries per 100 minutes of competition in the lightweight category, 2.25 per 100 minutes of competition in the middleweight category, 30 per 100 minutes of competition in the heavyweight category, and 2.54 per 100 minutes of competition in the super heavyweight category. CONCLUSIONS:: Compared with other reported martial arts, the injury rates are higher in Muay Thai. The head was shown to be the most common site of injury in amateur fighters, but there was an almost complete absence of lower limb injuries, which again is at variance with reported figures for other martial arts.


A 16 year study of injuries to professional kickboxers in the state of Victoria, Australia. (Siehe Anhang für vollständigen Artikel!)
Zazryn TR, Finch CF, McCrory P.
Department of Epidemiology & Preventive Medicine, Monash University Medical School, Prahran, Victoria, Australia.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the rate and type of injuries occurring to registered professional kickboxers in Victoria, Australia over a 16 year period. METHODS: Data describing all fight outcomes and injuries sustained during competition for the period August 1985 to August 2001 were obtained from the Victorian Professional Boxing and Combat Sports Board. RESULTS: A total of 382 injuries were recorded from 3481 fight participations, at an injury rate of 109.7 injuries per 1000 fight participations. The most common body region injured was the head/neck/face (52.5%), followed by the lower extremities (39.8%). Specifically, injuries to the lower leg (23.3%), the face (19.4%), and intracranial injury (17.2%) were the most common. Over 64% of the injuries were superficial bruising or lacerations. CONCLUSION: The nature of kickboxing, whereby kicking the opponent is the prime movement and the head a prime target, is reflected in the distributions of body regions most commonly injured by participants. Further research into injury patterns in different styles of kickboxing and the mechanism of injury occurrence is required. Exposure adjusted prospective studies are needed to monitor injury rates over time.


Extreme sports: injuries and medical coverage.
Young CC.
Departments of Orthopaedic Surgery & Family and Community Medicine, Division of Sports Medicine, Medical College of Wisconsin, 9200 W. Wisconsin Avenue, Milwaukee, WI 53226-0099, USA. cyoung@mcw.edu

Extreme sports (including in-line skating, snowboarding, mountain bicycling, extreme skiing, rock climbing, indoor tackle football, kickboxing, skateboarding, and ultra-endurance racing) are growing in popularity. Often these sports are designed to expose athletes to greater thrills and risks than are found in traditional sporting activities. Despite this increased risk of injury, athletes competing in these sports often have little or no formal medical coverage. This article reviews what is known about this emerging area of sports medicine to assist physicians in preparing for medical coverage of these athletes and their competitions.


Biomechanical study of full-contact karate contrasted with boxing.
Schwartz ML, Hudson AR, Fernie GR, Hayashi K, Coleclough AA.

It is known that boxers suffer a characteristic cumulative brain injury from repeated blows to the head that correlates well with the number of bouts fought. Much less is known about full-contact karate (kickboxing), which is relatively new. In full-contact karate, punches and kicks are actually landed, rather than being focused to culminate just short of an opponent, as practiced in traditional karate. Although a combatant can win on points, the surest means of victory is a knockout. Consequently, fighters strive to land blows to the head. To investigate the relative force of kicks and punches, a dummy head was mounted 175 cm above the floor (to simulate a 50th-percentile man standing erect) and 125 cm above the floor (to simulate the man in a crouched position) on a universal joint permitting motion about three axes. The mechanism was contrived to provide constant rotational stiffness, and springs provided constant restorative moments about the three axes. The texture of soft tissue was simulated by a mask of visco-elastic foamed materials. Fourteen karate experts punched and kicked the dummy. Accelerometer measurements in the 90- to 120-G range indicated that safety-chops (hand protectors) and safety-kicks (foot padding) did not reduce acceleration of the dummy. Ten-ounce boxing gloves mitigated peak acceleration to some extent. Kicks and punches produced accelerations in the same range. Violent acceleration of the head by any means produces injury. The authors conclude that, if full-contact karate is widely practiced, cases of kickboxer's encephalopathy will soon be reported.



Neurological sequelae of boxing.
Guterman A, Smith RW.

Blunt trauma to the head results in acceleration of the brain within the skull. This takes 2 forms: linear or translational acceleration which produces focal lesions, and rotational acceleration which results in 'sheering stresses' with stretching of nerves and bridging veins. Deceleration of the brain within the skull occurs when the head strikes a stationary object (e.g. floor, ring post). Cerebrovascular events are not infrequently encountered. The most common vascular sequalae is the subdural haematoma, which is also the most frequent cause of death in boxers. Epidural bleeds rare, and are generally due to deceleration of the brain. Subarachnoid bleeds have been rarely reported, but, like intraparenchymal haemorrhages, they do occur. Sudden flexion/extension of the neck is suggested as the mechanism of the occasional brainstem haemorrhage reported in boxing. Thrombosis of the internal carotid artery can occur secondary to direct blows to the neck or stretching of the contralateral carotid artery. The best known sequalae of boxing is traumatic encephalopathy--the 'punch drunk' syndrome. This is most common in second-rate and slugging type fighters. Severity correlates with the length of a boxer's career and total number of bouts, with an incidence of approximately 18%. Three stages of clinical deterioration are seen, the encephalopathy may be progressive or may remain clinically stable at any level. The first stage consists of affective disturbances with psychiatric symptoms being most marked. During the second stage an accentuation of the psychiatric symptoms occurs and signs/symptoms of Parkinsonism develop. The final stage consists of a decrease in general cognitive function together with pyramidal tract disease. Generally 2 to 3 years elapse between the first and final stages. Neuropathological studies reveal abnormalities of the septum pellucidum, scarring of the cerebellar and cerebral cortices, and loss of pyramidal neurons in the substantia nigra with neurofibrillary tangles in the absence of senile plaques. A 'groggy state' can occur in some fighters with confusion, impaired active attention and alteration of consciousness. During this period the boxer is at greater risk to suffer brain injury as defensive reflexes are frequently lost. Other neurological syndromes have been reported in addition to the 'groggy state'. These include a midbrain syndrome, headaches and cervical spinal injuries. Additionally, boxing appears to be a significant risk factor for the development of meningiomas


Assessment of cognitive recovery following sports related head trauma in boxers.
Ravdin LD, Barr WB, Jordan B, Lathan WE, Relkin NR.
Department of Neurology and Neurosciences, Weill Medical College of Cornell University and New York Presbyterian Hospital, New York, New York 10021, USA. ldravin@med.cornell.edu

OBJECTIVE: To prospectively examine recovery of cognitive function within one month following subconcussive sports related head trauma. DESIGN: A prospective study of New York State licensed professional boxers who underwent testing of cognitive functioning before and after (within days, one week, and one month) a professional bout. SETTING: Male professional athletes recruited from the New York State Athletic Commission and local boxing gyms. PARTICIPANTS: Twenty-six licensed professional boxers were enrolled in the protocol. Data is presented on the 18 participants who completed testing on at least three of the four time points. INTERVENTIONS: Serial neuropsychological assessment before and after the athletes engaged in competition. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Neuropsychological measures of cognitive functioning, including new learning and memory, information processing speed, and mental flexibility. RESULTS: A series of repeated measures MANOVAS revealed significant within subject differences across testing on complex information processing and verbal fluency. Post hoc analyses indicated significant differences between time 1 (baseline) and time 4 (one month post), with scores one month following the bout indicating significantly improved performance. Memory scores did not change significantly across testing; however, prior boxing exposure measured by total number of professional bouts was associated with poorer memory performance. CONCLUSIONS: Cognitive testing one month following participation in a professional boxing bout yielded scores suggestive of recovery to a level above the baseline. We conclude that baseline assessment taken during periods of intense training are likely confounded by other pre-bout conditions (i.e., sparring, rapid weight loss, pre-bout anxiety) and do not represent true baseline abilities. Instability of performance associated with mild head injury may complicate the interpretation of post-injury assessments. Practice effects may also confound the interpretation of serial assessments, leading to underestimation of the effects of sports related head trauma. Poorer cognitive performance was evident during the presumed recovery period in boxers with greater exposure to the sport (>12 professional bouts). This finding is consistent with reports of a cumulative effect of repetitive head trauma and the subsequent development of chronic traumatic brain injury. These data have implications for assessing recovery of function following head injury in players of other contact sports as well as determination of return-to-play following an injury


The neuropsychiatric aspects of boxing.
Mendez MF.
UCLA School of Medicine, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the neuropsychiatry of boxing. METHOD: This update considers the clinical, neuropsychological, diagnostic, neurobiological, and management aspects of boxing-related brain injury. RESULTS: Professional boxers with multiple bouts and repeated head blows are prone to chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). Repeated head blows produce rotational acceleration of the brain, diffuse axonal injury, and other neuropathological features. CTE includes motor changes such as tremor, dysarthria, and parkinsonism; cognitive changes such as mental slowing and memory deficits; and psychiatric changes such as explosive behavior, morbid jealousy, pathological intoxication, and paranoia. Screening with neuropsychological tests and neuroimaging may help predict those boxers at risk for CTE. CONCLUSIONS: Boxing results in a spectrum of CTE ranging from mild, nonprogressive motor changes to dementia pugilistica. Recent emphasis on safety in the ring, rehabilitation techniques, and other interventions do not eliminate the risk for CTE. For this reason, there is an active movement to ban boxing.


A neurologist's reflections on boxing. V. Conclude remarks.

Unterharnscheidt F.

Clinical and morphological publications have shown convincingly, that participation in boxing leads to a severe permanent brain damage. The extent of the brain damage is correlated to the number of bouts fought, which correspondents in a certain way how many blows against his head a boxer received and to his weight class. The intensity of a boxing blow of a heavyweight is much more severe than those achieved by boxers of lighter weight classes. The permanent brain damage in a boxer, the amateur and the professional boxer, manifests itself in several clinical syndromes in which the pyramidal, the extrapyramidal and the cerebellar systems are involved. A traumatic Parkinsonism, in its complete or abortive form, develops as the result of the numerous boxing blows a boxer sustains in his boxing career. Especially lateral parts of the substantia nigra are affected and reveal at macroscopical and microscopical examination a severe loss of pigmented neurons. Melanin pigment is visible free in the tissue and/or is phagozytosed in macrophages and glial cells. The traumatic Parkinson syndrome, often only in an abortive form, is combined in a boxer with additional clinical and morphological findings due to traumatic lesions in other areas of the brain. It is not as pure as in a patient with a Parkinson syndrome sui generis. The permanent brain damage in a boxer is diffuse, involving all areas of the brain. Especially involved are the large neurons of different layers of the cerebral cortex, the neurons of the Ammons horn formation, the Purkinje cells of the cerebellum. In place of destroyed and lost neurons, proliferation of glial elements, especially astroglial cells, has occurred. The defects are first replaced by protoplasmatic astroglial elements, and later by fibrillary astroglia. The destroyed neurons are replaced by glial scar tissue, which cannot perform the functions of the lost neurons. It is a process which is called partial necrosis of brain tissue. There is no reparation or restitution of the destroyed neural tissue of the brain. What is destroyed remains so, a restitution ad integrum does not occur. As the result of the diffuse loss of neurons in the brain a cerebral atrophy exists. The septum pellucidum, which consists of two thin lamellae, and is small or very small in a normal brain, forms a Cavum septi pellucidi, which is considerably enlarged. The walls of this structure, especially in its dorsal parts are considerably thinned; they show fenestrations and are, in dorsal parts no longer detectable, so that a direct connection between the two lateral ventricles exists. The clinically and morphologically existing permanent brain damage is the result of the boxing activity. Diagnostically, processes of another origin, such as alcoholism, luetic processes, other forms of dementia, etc. can undoubtedly be excluded. A permanent brain damage develops in professional and amateur boxers. The objection, which are voiced by members of the different Amateur Boxing Association, that such permanent brain damage in amateur boxers today no longer exists, after stricter protective measurements were introduced, is not tenable. Individuals who represent today the opinion, that a permanent brain damage or punch drunkenness in boxers does not occur, are not familiar with the pertinent medical literature. The argument, the injury quotient in boxing is lower than in all other athletic activities is not sound, since the statistics show only the inconsequential injuries of boxers, as lesions of the skin of the face, injuries of the hand, fractures, etc. but not the much more important and severe permanent brain damage, which is not taken into consideration in these so-called statistics. Besides of the permanent brain damage of former boxers as the result of the repeated and numerous blows against their head, severe permanent damage of the eyes and the hearing organ exists.

Tobias Blaschke
25-01-2005, 21:33
Glaubst Du wirklich, dass Du Deine Mutter mit wissenschaftlichen Studien überzeugen kanst?

Ich versuchte dies mal mit meiner Mutter vor Jahren bei der Anwendung von Wackelpeter gegen Durchfall (verbesserte Osmose durch Einsatz langkettiger Moleküle). Ihre Antwort war: "Nein, der Dr. XY hat gesagt, alles vermeiden was gluckert!"

Was will man da machen?

pflanzenmoerder
26-01-2005, 00:06
Fußball: Impotenz nach Unterleibstreffern, Kniee gehen kaputt, Sehnen/ Bänder werden geschädigt
Tennis: Tennisarm, Kniee werden überbelastet und es kann zu Langzeitschäden kommen
MTB: da kann man sich so ziemlich alles brechen
Handball: Impotenz nach Unterleibstreffern, Gehirnschäden durch Kopftreffer
Capoeira: degenerative Erkrankungen der Handgelenke, Rückenverletzungen
Joggen: Knie
Computerspielen: Rücken geht kaputt, Augenprobleme
Abspühlen: schwere Verletzungen wenn man seine teuren WMV-Messer einfach ins trübe Wasser wirft und rausfischt

Vieleicht hilft das.

Eine andere Möglichkeit hab ich gefunden:
Ich gleich den Verlust an Hirnmasse einfach dadurch aus, daß ich keine Drogen nehme :D So halte ich mich im allgemeinen Durchschnitt;)

Yahya
26-01-2005, 01:07
Es wurde ein kumulativer Effekt bei wiederholten leichten
SHT [Anm.: Schädel-Hirn-Trauma] in neuropsychologischen Untersuchungen festgestellt. Werden
mehrere leichte SHT pro Saison bei einem Sportler beobachtet,
sollte daher eine längere Sportpause folgen. Genaue Zeitangaben
können dabei nicht genannt worden, dies ist abhängig von der
Schwere des SHT (Grad 1-3) der Dauer von postkommotionellen
Symptomen und der ausgeübten Sportart.

http://www.zeitschrift-sportmedizin.de/images/heft1001/stort10_01.pdf

Beste Grüße,
Yahya

Baphomet
26-01-2005, 09:05
Eine andere Möglichkeit hab ich gefunden:
Ich gleich den Verlust an Hirnmasse einfach dadurch aus, daß ich keine Drogen nehme :D So halte ich mich im allgemeinen Durchschnitt;)

:klatsch: das gefällt mir! :D

SeraphiM
06-02-2007, 23:53
Tennis: Tennisarm, Kniee werden überbelastet und es kann zu Langzeitschäden kommen


ich meine das es ein gerücht ist, das ein tennisarm beim tennis entstehen kann..

elcarus
07-02-2007, 09:49
Jeder schlag auf den kopf ist eine leichte Gehirnerschütterung. Selbes Problem stellt sich übrigens bei kopfballstarken Fußballern dar

Hier war auch ein guter Artikel dazu:
http://www.kampfkunst-board.info/forum/f9/medizinischen-aspekte-boxens-33507/


Im Detail liest sich das so: „Jahrzehnte wissenschaftlichen Forschens und Beobachtens haben uns zur uneingeschränkten Überzeugung gebracht, dass klare Kopftreffer und Zusammenstöße pathologische Veränderungen in der Gehirnmasse hervorrufen.

Wir können an dieser zuverlässig gesicherten Tatsache wenig ändern. Wenn dem Gehirn Schaden zugefügt ist, kann der Mediziner nur die Auswirkungen mildern, meistens mit unbefriedigendem Resultat.

Die Verletzung der Zellenstrukturen im Gehirn und seines Kreislaufsystems kann nicht rückgängig gemacht werden. Der einzige sichere Weg, Gehirnschäden zu vermeiden, ist, vom medizinischen Standpunkt aus betrachtet, das Trauma zu vermeiden, das die Schäden verursacht.“

Wiedergaenger
09-02-2007, 02:35
Eine andere Möglichkeit hab ich gefunden:
Ich gleich den Verlust an Hirnmasse einfach dadurch aus, daß ich keine Drogen nehme :D So halte ich mich im allgemeinen Durchschnitt;)

:klatsch: das gefällt mir! :D

Die Argumentation finde ich eigentlich ziemlich gut - und Sport hält fit, fördert soziale Kontakte, stärkt das Selbstbewusstsein, ...

Jetzt musst Du nur noch begründen, warum es ausgerechnet Kickboxen sein soll - aber da hilft Dir


Fußball: Impotenz nach Unterleibstreffern, Kniee gehen kaputt, Sehnen/ Bänder werden geschädigt
Tennis: Tennisarm, Kniee werden überbelastet und es kann zu Langzeitschäden kommen
MTB: da kann man sich so ziemlich alles brechen
Handball: Impotenz nach Unterleibstreffern, Gehirnschäden durch Kopftreffer
Capoeira: degenerative Erkrankungen der Handgelenke, Rückenverletzungen
Joggen: Knie
Computerspielen: Rücken geht kaputt, Augenprobleme
Abspühlen: schwere Verletzungen wenn man seine teuren WMV-Messer einfach ins trübe Wasser wirft und rausfischt

bestimmt weiter :D

David

Trinculo
09-02-2007, 08:22
ich meine das es ein gerücht ist, das ein tennisarm beim tennis entstehen kann..

Stimmt, es gibt auch andere Theorien:

h**p://www.rasmusgran.se/enrutor/bilder/tennisarm.jpg