A.M.
05-09-2005, 12:43
Was glaubt Ihr?
Link zur Diskussion: http://pauljbax.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~7341.asp
Für alle, die dort keinen Zugang haben:
Sai Fan: "I've seen some of his clips before. Funny how he doesn't say that the clips have been sped up but they were filmed by an "amateur cameraman".
"Except the new stuff on the showreel-movie I have created those clips and they're definetely not sped up. The two guys who filmed parts of a seminar with a camcoder were seminar participants, one a friend of mine, and the other one a friend of Ingolf Gräbitz, who is a german student of Jesse Glover (http://www.selbstverteidigung-hamburg.de). I didn't tell people to tape it, but when they came up with a camcoder I thought "Why not?". I don't know who exactly taped all of the new sequences (the Swiss Expo parts were taped by Pierre Hartmann, who teaches Non-Classical Gung Fu in Geneva), but I think they have done a good job...Well, what is funny? That this inpromptu stuff let people believe it is too fast to be real?? I favor statements like Rafael's who mentioned he knows such kind of speed. But maybe it is beyond what some people can accomplish..." Andreas
-------------------------------------------
Sai Fan: "I'm not easily fooled when it comes to camera tricks. I specialize in them.
Some "camcorders" have a "sport" setting which adjusts the camera aperture and slows recording time in order to record high speed action (example: front and center at a NASCAR event and cars are whizzing by in a blink of an eye). This allows more detail to be recorded (otherwise it would be more "blurry")
HOWEVER when you use this setting for not so fast action, when played back it gives the appearance of comical speed. Which is the case of most of these: http://www.tommycarruthers.com/video.htm Whether you are aware of it, are not aware that you recorded it this way, or just plain lieing...whoever recorded those used that setting. End of story.
Meanwhile El Mastero said:
"So your hand/arm should be as fast while throwing a punch as it is while swatting a fly. Try capturing that on film or even in front of the mirror."
Not sure what you are saying here but it's been done to death. No one and I mean NO ONE possesses this sort of speed that it can't be caught on film. Hummingbird wings have been slowed down with photography and I doubt anyone can punch that fast.
I'm not taking anything away from his technique or skill but hyping yourself with ultra-ninja abilities doesn't cut it in today's martial arts world. Get in the ring.
For some reason those clips are no longer available for download, I got them on KAZAA awhile back. If someone could explain how to post video on my site, I'll post them.
"But maybe it is beyond what some people can accomplish..."
Sorry, mystical ninja super speed only works in the movies and it's funny there too.
Tommy MAY be fast but it's funny how his "opponents" move just as fast when walking. Explain that to everyone...."
-----------------------------------------------
William Holland: "Fast is as fast does!
From what I hear from those that have met Tommy in person, including Pat Strong, Tommy is indeed fast and his guys bang for real.
However, many demonstrate speed on pads or on film only.
True Combat speed should be able to be employed with a live, resisting opponent. Also, I have seen a lot of tournament fighters who are indeed "flashy fast" but never trained for power or penetration. When I saw these "tournament champions" in the ring, their speed was ineffective and they got blasted with fast and powerful blows that they were not accustomed to delivering or defending.
Speed when applied "live" means, spontaneously with aj opponent also forcing you to move, defend, adjust and fight during tactical deployment.
Kawabunga,
William E. Holland II
"The Mongoose"
-----------------------------------------------------
"Well said, William Holland...
Sai Fan,
hopefully you're not into stuff like serious journalism (like politics) or into medical research, and only reduce your "critical analysis" to computer and movies.
The people who brought the camcoder didn't know what to expect, nor did they care about specific adjustments. Sorry, I was there and got the original stuff on VHS (the same footage from two different camera angles). Hmm, I see a blurry in some movements when I watch it with my VCR. It's because it was captured with the ordinary 25 frames per second. I can watch it normally like a movie, or frame by frame, and the counter shows each new second gone after the next 25 frames. It looks A BIT different in a smaller screen size / MPEG format (lower quality), but that's the only difference.
I also can't see his "opponents" move just as fast when walking.
I don't know what kind of version you have downloaded with Kazaa, the original files or a version which was edited by someone, which also exist in the net. I suggest to only take a look here: http://jkd.inat.org or here http://www.tommycarruthers.com/video.htm. It is not copyrighted stuff, and people can do with it whatever they want to do. If you consider the original files displaying unbelievable or "mystical Ninja super" speed it might has something to do with all the speed you have seen yet, in your school, the martial arts circles you're into, your teachers' speed, etc.
Take a look at the footage of Bruce Lee and Taky Kimura. Bruce Lee is at least as fast or faster with his hands (in his young twenties!). Unbelievable? Maybe.....It also looks a bit strange because it's old stuff done on 8 mm, but I have no doubts that this footage is for real.
I can imagine that not everyone likes Tommy, but I don't think many people on this forum have a doubt that these clips are real. Anyone wants to start a poll about it?
Ralph Lammche from the German branch of the mobile phone company NOKIA hired Tommy for the motion capturing job. He saw him live performing, and wrote on a Nokia website that he's "amazing". Maybe experienced martial artists (like Pat Strong or the teachers of the JKD Wednesday Night Group) see it a bit different...
These are just demos. Nowadays people ask me to work on / upload it, not like the old files I did on my own. If you consider this as hype, why watching or even care about it? Yes, it doesn't have something to do with the reality of fighting, but so what? How many times have Jerry Poteet and his instructors "get into the ring"? Why is there a need to fuss about it? Maybe some people have a problem when they see something they think they can never achieve. I would say try it....
Your posting only shows how much someone can be wrong thinking he's some kind of expert on a certain field. If you want to consider this "funny", you're welcome.
Yours" - Andreas
Link zur Diskussion: http://pauljbax.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~7341.asp
Für alle, die dort keinen Zugang haben:
Sai Fan: "I've seen some of his clips before. Funny how he doesn't say that the clips have been sped up but they were filmed by an "amateur cameraman".
"Except the new stuff on the showreel-movie I have created those clips and they're definetely not sped up. The two guys who filmed parts of a seminar with a camcoder were seminar participants, one a friend of mine, and the other one a friend of Ingolf Gräbitz, who is a german student of Jesse Glover (http://www.selbstverteidigung-hamburg.de). I didn't tell people to tape it, but when they came up with a camcoder I thought "Why not?". I don't know who exactly taped all of the new sequences (the Swiss Expo parts were taped by Pierre Hartmann, who teaches Non-Classical Gung Fu in Geneva), but I think they have done a good job...Well, what is funny? That this inpromptu stuff let people believe it is too fast to be real?? I favor statements like Rafael's who mentioned he knows such kind of speed. But maybe it is beyond what some people can accomplish..." Andreas
-------------------------------------------
Sai Fan: "I'm not easily fooled when it comes to camera tricks. I specialize in them.
Some "camcorders" have a "sport" setting which adjusts the camera aperture and slows recording time in order to record high speed action (example: front and center at a NASCAR event and cars are whizzing by in a blink of an eye). This allows more detail to be recorded (otherwise it would be more "blurry")
HOWEVER when you use this setting for not so fast action, when played back it gives the appearance of comical speed. Which is the case of most of these: http://www.tommycarruthers.com/video.htm Whether you are aware of it, are not aware that you recorded it this way, or just plain lieing...whoever recorded those used that setting. End of story.
Meanwhile El Mastero said:
"So your hand/arm should be as fast while throwing a punch as it is while swatting a fly. Try capturing that on film or even in front of the mirror."
Not sure what you are saying here but it's been done to death. No one and I mean NO ONE possesses this sort of speed that it can't be caught on film. Hummingbird wings have been slowed down with photography and I doubt anyone can punch that fast.
I'm not taking anything away from his technique or skill but hyping yourself with ultra-ninja abilities doesn't cut it in today's martial arts world. Get in the ring.
For some reason those clips are no longer available for download, I got them on KAZAA awhile back. If someone could explain how to post video on my site, I'll post them.
"But maybe it is beyond what some people can accomplish..."
Sorry, mystical ninja super speed only works in the movies and it's funny there too.
Tommy MAY be fast but it's funny how his "opponents" move just as fast when walking. Explain that to everyone...."
-----------------------------------------------
William Holland: "Fast is as fast does!
From what I hear from those that have met Tommy in person, including Pat Strong, Tommy is indeed fast and his guys bang for real.
However, many demonstrate speed on pads or on film only.
True Combat speed should be able to be employed with a live, resisting opponent. Also, I have seen a lot of tournament fighters who are indeed "flashy fast" but never trained for power or penetration. When I saw these "tournament champions" in the ring, their speed was ineffective and they got blasted with fast and powerful blows that they were not accustomed to delivering or defending.
Speed when applied "live" means, spontaneously with aj opponent also forcing you to move, defend, adjust and fight during tactical deployment.
Kawabunga,
William E. Holland II
"The Mongoose"
-----------------------------------------------------
"Well said, William Holland...
Sai Fan,
hopefully you're not into stuff like serious journalism (like politics) or into medical research, and only reduce your "critical analysis" to computer and movies.
The people who brought the camcoder didn't know what to expect, nor did they care about specific adjustments. Sorry, I was there and got the original stuff on VHS (the same footage from two different camera angles). Hmm, I see a blurry in some movements when I watch it with my VCR. It's because it was captured with the ordinary 25 frames per second. I can watch it normally like a movie, or frame by frame, and the counter shows each new second gone after the next 25 frames. It looks A BIT different in a smaller screen size / MPEG format (lower quality), but that's the only difference.
I also can't see his "opponents" move just as fast when walking.
I don't know what kind of version you have downloaded with Kazaa, the original files or a version which was edited by someone, which also exist in the net. I suggest to only take a look here: http://jkd.inat.org or here http://www.tommycarruthers.com/video.htm. It is not copyrighted stuff, and people can do with it whatever they want to do. If you consider the original files displaying unbelievable or "mystical Ninja super" speed it might has something to do with all the speed you have seen yet, in your school, the martial arts circles you're into, your teachers' speed, etc.
Take a look at the footage of Bruce Lee and Taky Kimura. Bruce Lee is at least as fast or faster with his hands (in his young twenties!). Unbelievable? Maybe.....It also looks a bit strange because it's old stuff done on 8 mm, but I have no doubts that this footage is for real.
I can imagine that not everyone likes Tommy, but I don't think many people on this forum have a doubt that these clips are real. Anyone wants to start a poll about it?
Ralph Lammche from the German branch of the mobile phone company NOKIA hired Tommy for the motion capturing job. He saw him live performing, and wrote on a Nokia website that he's "amazing". Maybe experienced martial artists (like Pat Strong or the teachers of the JKD Wednesday Night Group) see it a bit different...
These are just demos. Nowadays people ask me to work on / upload it, not like the old files I did on my own. If you consider this as hype, why watching or even care about it? Yes, it doesn't have something to do with the reality of fighting, but so what? How many times have Jerry Poteet and his instructors "get into the ring"? Why is there a need to fuss about it? Maybe some people have a problem when they see something they think they can never achieve. I would say try it....
Your posting only shows how much someone can be wrong thinking he's some kind of expert on a certain field. If you want to consider this "funny", you're welcome.
Yours" - Andreas