Ja Toll er sagte 1963 auch
"nun beschäftige ich mich schon lange mit Wing Chun, dem natürlichem sistem, jetzt werde ich nicht mehr abgelenkt von kata bewegungen und mir selbst usw......"
Damit er dann 1969 sagt
"i've lost faith in the chinese classical arts....because basically all styles are a product of land swimming....my line of training is more toward efficient street fighting with everything goes, wearing head gear, gloves, chest guard shin/knee guards,etc"
Geändert von BLADE !!! (01-06-2015 um 11:43 Uhr)
Dann weiter sagte er 1970 in einem Brief an WSL
"Especially in the states there are western boxers, i often practice with them too. There are many so called masters in Wing Chun here, i really hope that they will not be so blind to fight with those western boxers."
Geändert von BLADE !!! (01-06-2015 um 11:18 Uhr)
Du siehst er änderte seine Meinung, und auch wenn nicht es spielt keine Rolle für mich. Habe meine Meinung und die ist das alle Kung Fu stile cool aussehen aber sehr wenig mit effektivem Kampf zu tun haben. Bruce war der Vorreiter und deswegen zolle ich ihm Respekt, sicherlich auch ein grossartiger fighter, der Beste oder den Besten gibt es für mich nicht.
Ich danke ihm für das JKD das mir pers sehr liegt.
Administrator
Der Originalartikel ist vom User Saarbrigga, er bat mich, den hier einzufügen, da sein PC Probleme mit der Datenmenge hat. Passend also zum Topic "Mythos Bruce Lee" hier sein Artikel:
Auf ner alten Festplatte hab ich seit ca. der Jahrtausendwende Sachen abgespeichert, die man im Netz bezüglich BL und Fights oder KK so finden konnte. Es ist alles nicht ganz chronologisch und vlt tauchen 1-2 Sachen auch doppelt auf, aber um einfach mal ein bisschen Lektüre zum Thema zu haben, passt es denk ich ganz gut in den Thread.
Es ist jedem selbst überlassen was man davon hält, man kann alles glauben, die Hälfte oder gar nichts. Ich schätze so komplett findet man das im Netz nicht.
So oder so viel Spass beim Lesen. Einige Links sind mittlerweile vlt veraltet, aber man kann die "References" trotzdem druchgehen.
PS: Sorry dass alles Englisch ist.
Fight History by Date
1958:
In the tournament consisted of twelve schools the three time champion British boxer Gary Elms was defeated by Lee by way of knockout in the third round in the 1958 Hong Kong Inter-School amateur Boxing Championships by using Wing Chun traps and high/low-level straight punches. Hawkings Cheung, his fellow Wing Chun street fighter, witnessed the event.[1][2][3]
←Before facing Elms in the finals, Lee defeated Shen Yuen, Lieh Lo, and Yang Huang, all by way of knock out in the first round[4].
Lee knocked-out Pu Chung, a Choy Li Fut fighter, in the roof tops of Hong Kong in a 1958 Full-Contact match. The match was refereed by Sheun-Leung Wong.[5][6][7]
1959:
During Lee's initial training as a youth, he was as a member of the "Tigers of Junction Street," and was involved in numerous gang-related street fights. "In one of his last encounters, while removing his jacket the fellow he was squaring off against sucker punched him and blackened his eye. Bruce flew into a rage and went after him, knocked the fellow out, broke his tooth, broke his arm. The police were involved."[8] The incident took place on a Hong Kong rooftop at 10 P.M. on Wednesday, April 29, 1959.[9]
1960:
In Seattle, Lee back-fisted and broke a man's nose after Lee saw him harassing a Chinese girl. Lee was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile in 1960. [10]
1962:
Lee knocked out Uechi,a Japanese black belt, in 11 seconds in a 1962 Full-Contact match in Seattle[11]. It was refereed by Jesse Glover[12]. The incident took place in Seattle at a YMCA handball court.[13] Taki Kamura says the battle lasted 10 seconds in contrary to Harts statement.[14]
Ed Hart states "The karate man arrived in his gi (uniform), complete with black belt, while Bruce showed up in his street clothes and simply took off his shoes. The fight lasted exactly 11 seconds--I know because I was the time keeper—and Bruce had hit the guy something like 15 times and kicked him once. I thought he'd killed him."[15]
The fight ended by Bruce knocking Uechi the length of the gymnasium[16]
1964:
In Oakland California in 1964 at China Town the Chinese community issued an ultimatum to Bruce's dojo to stop teaching non-Chinese[17]. Refusing to be told what to do or to discriminate who is allowed to learn Lee had been challenged to a combat match with their top fighter Wong Jack Man [18]. The formidable Wong Jack Man had mastery of Xingyiquan, Northern Shaolin, and Tai Chi Chuan while being a direct student of Grand Master Ma Kin Fung[19]. The arrangement was that if Bruce lost he would have to shut down his school, if he won then Bruce would be free to teach Caucasians or anyone else[20]. Wong stated that he requested to fight Lee after Lee issued an open challenge during one of Lee's demonstrations at a Chinatown theater[21]. However, contrary to this claimed motive is the signed formal letter manifested by Dan Chan with signatures by the martial art community, including Chan and Wong, as a petitioned document by the community does not correspond to the motive of responding to an open challenge.
"That paper had all the names of the sifu from Chinatown, but they don't scare me." — Bruce Lee[22]
Wong and witness William Chen stated that the fight lasted an unusually long 20-25 minutes[23]. Individuals known to have witnessed the match included Cadwell, James Lee (Bruce Lee's associate, no relation) and William Chen, a teacher of Tai Chi Chuan. According to Bruce, Linda, and James Lee, the fight lasted 3 minutes with a decisive victory for Bruce. "The fight ensued, it was a no holds barred fight, it took three minutes. Bruce got this guy down to the ground and said 'do you give up?' and the man said he gave up." — Linda Lee Cadwell[24]
Reportedly, Wong Jack Man published his own account of the battle in the Chinese Pacific Weekly, a Chinese-language newspaper in San Francisco, which contained another challenge to Lee for a public rematch[25] Lee had no reciprocation to Wong's article nor were there any further public announcements by either, but Lee had continued to teach Caucasians.
Fights Without Date / Anecdotal / Speculative
In a bout Lee had against a Taekwon do practitioner, martial artist Steve Golden a Kenpo black belt for seven years at the time states,
"It was frightening to see how easy it was for Bruce. The Tae Kwon Do black belt mentioned that he knew Bruce had good hands, so Bruce said he would only use his feet. They went pretty hard, and the guy really tried to kick Bruce. Every time the guy kicked, Bruce got just barely out of range, and just as the guy’s foot came down, Bruce held his kick up to the guy’s face—a roundhouse kick right up to the guy’s nose or a side kick up to the guy’s temple. This guy was putting everything he had into getting Bruce, and Bruce was barely putting out any effort. If it was for real, it would have lasted until the first kick."[26]
Richard Bustillo is certified as a law enforcement defensive tactics instructor and certified with the Olympic Training Center as a coach and official with USA Boxing, and a Kru in Muay Thai.[27] Bustillo, who is professed in Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, Karate, and his native Hawaiian Kajukenbo systems, is an inductee into the ‘World Martial Arts Hall of Fame’ and had eventually became a student of Lees and describes the following incident while Lee was present at a training session at I.M.B academy, Torrance, California:[28]
“While a few of us were training, a guy asked Bruce if he actually thought he could stop his attack if he were to charge at Bruce with his knife. Well, Bruce told this guy to come at him with the blade, so the guy did. It was so fast when Bruce kicked the knife right out of the guys hand, before he could take more than two steps, that we were all left amazed by it…but, perhaps not as much as the guy who no longer held that knife.”[29]
Lee's eventual celebrity put him in the path of a number of men who sought to make a name for themselves by causing a confrontation with Lee. A challenger had invaded Lee's private home in Hong Kong by trespassing into the backyard to incite Lee in combat. Lee finished the challenger violently with a kick, infuriated over the home invasion. Describing the incident, Herb Jackson states,
"One time one fellow got over that wall, got into his yard and challenged him and he says 'how good are you?' And Bruce was poppin mad. He [Bruce] says 'he gets the idea, this guy, to come and invade my home, my own private home, invade it and challenge me.' He said he got so mad that he gave the hardest kick he ever gave anyone in his life."[30]
Bob Wall, USPK karate champion and co-star in "Enter the Dragon", recalled one encounter that transpired after a film extra kept taunting Lee. The extra yelled that Lee was "a movie star, not a martial artist," that he "wasn't much of a fighter." Lee answered his taunts by asking him to jump down from the wall he was sitting on. Wall described Lee's opponent as "a gang-banger type of guy from Hong Kong," a "damned good martial artist," and observed that he was fast, strong, and bigger than Bruce.[31]
"This kid was good. He was strong and fast, and he was really trying to punch Bruce's brains in. But Bruce just methodically took him apart.[32] Bruce kept moving so well, this kid couldn't touch him...then all of a sudden, Bruce got him and rammed his ass with the wall and swept him up, proceeding to drop him and plant his knee into his opponent's chest, locked his arm out straight, and nailed him in the face repeatedly." — Bob Wall[33]
Quotes about martial arts and fighting skills
James W. DeMile states, "I wouldn't have put a dime on anyone to beat Bruce Lee in a real confrontation. Bruce Lee was the best street fighter I ever saw, even to this very day, and not just pound for pound — but against anyone in a real fight."[34]
→←James W. DeMile was the "Duke" of the Capitol Hill gang in Seattle.[35]
Ed Parker Jr.: "I remember many times my father (Ed Parker) talking about, pound for pound, Bruce Lee was the best martial artist, he´d ever seen. [36]
Dan Inosanto stated, "There's no doubt in my mind that if Bruce Lee had gone into pro boxing, he could easily have ranked in the top three in the lightweight division or junior-welterweight division."[37]
"In a dictionary, you say 'greatest', you say 'Bruce Lee', that´s the way it is. He is second to no one." — Sugar Ray Leonard[38]
Better than 90% of the martial artists "Black Belt" author Steven Barnes interviewed believe that Bruce Lee was the best fighter they had ever seen.[39]
John T. Benn stated, "When I was having dinner with Chuck [Norris] I did ask him: 'If you and Bruce would be in a real fight to death, who would win?' and he said without thinking: "Bruce of course. Nobody can beat him."[40]
"Bruce Lee is my idol. I try to learn some techniques from him, especially the quickness of his hands and legs." — Manny Pacquiao [41]
"When Bruce Lee kicked, you shouldn´t blink with your eyes, because if you do, you don´t see his kick, it´s so fast! Human beings can´t move like a cartoon, so that´s the fastest you can be. Even Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson, their punches are fast, but you still can see them." — Jackie Chan [42]
"Bruce Lee is the leading candidate for being the greatest martial artist of all time. But this doesn´t make you a fighter." — Joe Lewis (martial artist) [43]
"Lee´s martial arts skills made him arguably the greatest martial artist of his time - or any other." — Bill Duff in Human Weapon, Episode 10 "China and Kung Fu". [44]
[edit] References
^ Bruce Lee - Biography - IMDb
^ Bruce Lee - Netglimse.com
^ http://armotec.blogspot.com/2008/11/...bruce-lee.html
^ http://lechantdumonde6893.blogspot.c...gate-girl.html
^ Bruce Lee: The Man Only I Knew._ New York, NY: Warner Books, Inc., 1975. ISBN 0446894079,'Linda Lee Cadwell'
^ The Legendary Bruce Lee._ Burbank, CA: Ohara Publications, 1986. ISBN 0897501063, 'Linda Lee Cadwell'
^ Bruce Lee - Netglimse.com
^ Bruce Lee: The Immortal Dragon, 29 January 2002, A&E Television Networks
^ pg 60 Official cc 01596 Karate vol2 no 2 fall 1995 GCR publishing group
^ http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~chenj/b...bruce_faq.html
^ pg 45 Fighting Spirit Bruce Thomas 1994
^ pg 45 Fighting Spirit Bruce Thomas 1994
^ pg 45 Fighting Spirit Bruce Thomas 1994
^ pg 45 Fighting Spirit Bruce Thomas 1994
^ pg 24 BlackBelt Magazine Jan 1994
^ pg 61 cc 01596 Official Karate Vol2 No 2 Fall 1995
^ Bruce Lee: The Immortal Dragon, 29 January 2002, A&E Television Networks
^ Bruce Lee: The Immortal Dragon, 29 January 2002, A&E Television Networks
^ Wong Jack Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
^ Bruce Lee: The Immortal Dragon, 29 January 2002, A&E Television Networks
^ Lee had boasted during a demonstration at a Chinatown theater that he could beat any martial artist in San Francisco and had issued an open challenge.. (Dorgan)
^ pg 117 Black Belt: Bruce Lee Collector's Edition Summer 1993 Rainbow Publications Inc
^ Dorgan, Michael. Bruce Lee's Toughest Fight. Official Karate. July 1980
^ Bruce Lee: The Immortal Dragon, 29 January 2002, A&E Television Networks
^ Wong's version of the fight, along with the challenge, was run as the top story on the front page... (Dorgan)
^ Black Belt October 2008 Paul J. Bax
^ Richard Bustillo Original Bruce Lee student
^ Bruce Lee on cite martialinfo.com
^ Richard Bustillo Original Bruce Lee student
^ Bruce Lee: Curse of the Dragon, 1993 Warner Bros. Tom Kuhn Fred Weintraub
^ Little 1997, p. 167
^ Vaughn 1986, p. 153
^ Little 1997, p. 168
^ Temple of the Unknown interview (10 April 2001).
^ Wing Chun Do.
^ Bruce Lee: Curse of the Dragon, 1993 Warner Bros. Tom Kuhn Fred Weintraub
^ Birchland, Bob (November 2007), ""The Truth of Boxing: A Critical Look at Bruce Lee's Hand Skills"", Black Belt Magazine: 93
^ http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us
^ pg 133 Black Belt: Bruce Lee Collector's Edition Summer 1993 Rainbow Publications Inc
^ John Benn, in audio commentary on DVD of The Way of the Dragon (US title: Return of the Dragon).
^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejAGvC19CVo
^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK2mW8C-sB4
^ Bruce Lee's Temple of the Unknown
^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gFbUc2-d8
List of documented Bruce Lee street fights with source provided.
1) In 1960, Bruce Lee and the late Skip Ellsworth fought two opponents in a pool hall.
2) In 1960, Bruce Lee and Ellsworth fought two opponents in a parking lot.
3) In 1960, Bruce Lee and Ellsworth fought three opponents outside a movie theater.
Source: Skip Ellsworth's website
4) In 1962, Bruce Lee fought a Japanese challenger named Uechi at a local YMCA. The fight took place on a handball court, Sifu Jesse Glover was the referee, and the late Ed Hart was the timekeeper. Bruce straight-blasted the challenger into a wall and front kicked him in the face as he was slumping to the floor.
Source: Print and videotaped interviews with Jesse Glover and Ed Hart (both on Youtube)
5) The late Ronald Kealoha and his friend, George Santos, witnessed Bruce knock out a challenger inside a boxing ring at the Seattle National Guard Armory. According to Kealoha, the challenger ended up in the hospital.
Source: Black Belt magazine article on Kealoha
6) During a visit to Hong Kong in 1963, Doug Palmer witnessed Bruce side kick a challenger in the knee to quickly end the fight.
Source: Fighting Spirit (book)
7) Bruce Lee's much publicized 1964 fight with Wong Jack Man in Oakland.
Source: Pick a source, any source, LOL.
8) Bruce Lee toyed with a "huge truck driver" in a road rage incident which occurred in Los Angeles. Sifu Dan Inosanto was a passenger in the car that Bruce was driving.
Source: Youtube clip of Paul Vunak recounting what Dan Inosanto told him about his Sifu's street fighting exploits.
9) Bruce Lee ended a fight with one of Vic Damone's security staff with a side kick to the jaw.
Source: The Incomparable Fighter (book)
10) Bob Wall witnessed Bruce demolish an extra on the set of Enter the Dragon.
Source: Print and videotaped interviews with Bob Wall / Curse of the Dragon (Documentary 1993)
11) Chaplain Chang witnessed a separate fight between Bruce and an extra on the set of Enter the Dragon. Bruce broke the extra's ribs with a side kick.
Source: The Making of Enter the Dragon (book)
12) A challenger climbed over a wall on Bruce Lee's property in Hong Kong. Bruce told the late Herb Jackson that he was "popping mad" and that he ended the fight with a side kick to the intruder's chest.
Source: Videotaped interview with Herb Jackson.
--------------------------------------…
From Skip Ellsworth"s (one of Bruce Lee's original students) website. Can search for it on google.
MY WITNESSING REAL-LIFE CONFRONTATIONS:
When Bruce and I went into an “all black” pool hall near 23rd and Madison, there was an incident involving some black guys.
When Bruce and I drove a truck to Montana (for Canus Services, Inc) to pick up some freight, and we stopped at a “cowboy-honky-tonk-tavern-restaurant” for dinner, there was an incident involving some cowboys that were hanging out under a mercury-light in the parking lot.
When Bruce and I were leaving the Kokusai Movie Theater one night, in the “International District” in Seattle, there was an incident involving three black dudes. The list goes on…
One must remember that we were only 18 to 23 (?) years old when these types of things were happening; AND we were exploring; AND we were often in places where a white guy was not welcome; AND we were often in places where a Chinese guy might be harassed; AND Bruce generally walked in a very “cocky” way that would always attract attention; AND we were often in places where challenges are common between guys of that age; AND finally, we knew that Bruce could end any physical confrontation within three or four seconds.
To describe any of the brief fights that Bruce had back in those days would serve no meaningful purpose here. In my opinion, it should suffice to say that Bruce Lee was the best fighter that ever lived. Whoops… maybe I should say that Bruce was only “one of” the best fighters who ever lived – so I don’t offend anyone.
In 1958 the Master Lee fought in the Honk Kong boxing championships. He knocked out Gary Elmes in three rounds using some rather vicious Ving Tsun trapping maneuvers.
In 1959, now involved with the 'Tigers of Junction Street,' Bruce was going to fight in one of the infamous 'rooftop' matches Hong Kung was famous for. He was sucker punched, received a black eye, and became so angry he broke his attacker's arm.
In 1962 Bruce fought a Karate black belt named 'Uechi' in the Pacific Northwest.
List
1955 William Cheung Hong Kong Exhibition
1957 Wong Shun-Leung Hong Kong Exhibition
1958 Pu Chang Hong Kong KO 2 Referee: Wong Shun-Leung
1958 Yang Huang Hong Kong KO 1 Amateur Boxing Tournament
1958 Lieh Lo Hong Kong KO 1 Amateur Boxing Tournament
1958 Shen Yuen Hong Kong KO 1 Amateur Boxing Tournament-Semi Finals
1958 Gary Elms Hong Kong KO 3 Amateur Boxing Tournament-Finals
1959 (April 29th, 10 PM) Kung Fu Fighter KO after being sucker punched, broke his tooth and arm
1960 (unknown) Seattle, Washington KO 1 Lee scored a knockout with a backfist/Street Fight
1960 (unknown) Seattle, Washington KO 1 Street Fight
1962 Uechi Seattle, Washington KO 1 Referee: Jesse Glover
1963 (unknown) Hong Kong KO Lee finished the fight quickly with a kick to the knee. Witness: Doug Palmer
1964 Wong Jack Man Oakland, California Controversial Result of this fight is disputed. Some sources claim the fight ended in a draw or a win for Lee; witnesses: Linda Lee Cadwell, James Yimm Lee + 1-2 Wong people.
1973 Kung fu fighter Hong Kong KO The KO came 30 seconds into the fight; Witnesses: Bob Wall and Bolo Yeung
Das heisst doch so viel wie: "Hier sind viele sogenannte WC..."Zitat von BLADE !!!
Damit schrieb der WSL doch nicht, WC sei unbrauchbar. Es gab da wohl einige die sich als "WC Meister" ausgegeben haben, und die meint er damit.
BLADE ich seh das ja genau so mit dem Vorreiter etc., nur halt nicht so dass man sagen könnte, BL habe WC grundsätzlich als schlecht/uneffektiv etc. tituliert.
Er hat ja auch nie zu WSL persönlich gesagt: "Hey Du Lusche, Dein Zeug da bringt gar nix. Ich wisch mit Dir locker den Boden und jeder Boxer etc. auch".
@ jkdberlin
Merci für s reinstellen!
Hier noch Zusammenfassung auf Englisch (ist aus anderem Forum kopiert).
Record
- Amateur Boxing is complete.
- Exhibition/Sparring/Demonstration is definately incomplete
- Street Fights should be very complete (maybe a few are not listed)
- Beimo Matches is definately incomplete (Wong Shun Leung stated Lee was involved in more matches, but it s not known how many exactly)
W = Win
L = Loss
D = Draw
Amateur Boxing (4 Fights, 4 Wins (4KO), 0 Losses, 0 Draws)
Date / Opponent (Nationality) / Location / Result
1958 / Huang Yang (China) / Hong Kong Amateur Boxing Tournament - First Round / W KO 1
1958 / Lo Lieh (China) / Hong Kong Amateur Boxing Tournament - Quarterfinals / W KO 1
1958 / Yuen Shen (China) / Hong Kong Amateur Boxing Tournament - Semifinals / W KO 1
1958 / Gary Elms (Great Britain) / Hong Kong Amateur Boxing Tournament - Final / W KO 3
(source: Hawkins Cheung, School records + Fotos)
Exhibitions, Sparrings and Demonstrations
Since you can´t consider exhibitions, sparrings and demonstrations as win-loss-draw situations:
black = it was just a demonstrations (opponent/partner etc. had no chance to "win" or "lose")
green (win), red (lose) or blue (draw) = it was an exhibition or sparring which was ended before somebody gets real hurt, but still "winner" or "loser".
(7 Exhibitions, 4 Wins, 2 Losses, 1 Draw)
1955 / William Cheung / L Hong Kong, Exhibition
1957 / Wong Shun Leung / L Hong Kong, Exhibition
1959 / Ed Hart / Seattle, Exhibition W (Hart started to train with Lee afterwards. Source: Ed Hart)
1959 / James DeMile / Seattle, Exhibition W (DeMile got humilated in his own words, started to train with Lee afterwards. Source: Jim DeMile)
1960 / Taky Kimura / Seattle, Wing Chun Sparring (trapping, chi sao etc., recorded)
1964 / Taky Kimura / Longbeach, Demonstration (well known footage)
1965 / Old man / Oakland, California, Demonstration (finger jabs, punches, kicks; recorded, screen test for "Charlie Chan" series)
1967 / Madison Square Garden Tournament held by Henry Cho, Demonstration (push ups and kicks in a boxing ring, recorded)
1967 / Jack Dutcher / Madison Square Garden, Demonstration (Karate punches, JKD Punches, 1 Inch Punch, recorded)
1967 / Dan Inosanto / Longbeach, Sparring (well known footage, recorded)
1967 / Robert Baker / Longbeach, Demonstration (well known footage, 1 and 3 inch punch, recorded)
1967 / Victor Moore / Longebach, Demonstration (closing the gap, 6 closings recorded)
1966-1969 / Teakwondoin / Los Angeles, Exhibition W (source: Steve Golden, "Black Belt" author)
1966-1969 / Knife Attacker / Los Angeles, Exhibition W (kicked the knife out of the attacker´s hand. Source: Richard Bustillo)
1970 / Jhoon Rhee / Dominican Republic / (documented by fotos, source: Jhoon Rhee)
1970 / Hong Kong TV Show, Demonstration (punches, kicks and push ups, Brandon with him, recorded)
1973 / Wong Shun Leung / Hong Kong, Exhibition D (arrengement Wong uses just hands, Lee just feet. Source: Wan Kam Leung)
Street Fights and Beimo (19 fights, 18 Wins, 1 Losses, 0 Draws)
Date / Opponent / Location / Result
1954 / Street gang member / Hong Kong, Street Fight / L (after beating Lee started Wing Chun training)
1958 / Chung Pu, Choy Li Fut stylist / Hong Kong, Beimo Match / W KO Round 2 (Referee: Wong Shun Leung)
1959 (April 29) / Kung Fu stylist / Hong Kong, Beimo Match / W (got sucker punched, knocked out opponent, broke arm and toot. Source: John Little)
1960 / Unknown / Seattle, Street Fight / W (knockout with backfist. Source: James DeMile)
1960 / Two opponents in a pool hall (alongside Skipp Ellsworth) / Seattle, Street Fight / W (source: Skipp Ellsworth)
1960 / Two opponents in a parking lot (alongside Skipp Ellsworth) / Seattle, Street Fight / W (source: Skipp Ellsworth)
1960 / Three opponents outside a movie theater (alsongside Skipp Ellsworth) / Seattle, Street Fight / W (source: Skipp Ellsworth)
1960 (Nov. 1) / Uechi / Seattle, Street Fight / W (KO after 11 seconds; Jesse Glover referee, Ed Hart timekeeper)
1959-1962 / Unknown / Seattle National Guard Armory Boxing ring, Street Fight / W (witness: Ronald Kealoha, George Santos)
1963 / Kung Fu Fighter / Hong Kong, Street Fight / W (sidekick to the knee. Source: Witness Doug Palmer)
1964 / Wong Jack Man / Oakland, Street Fight / W after 3 Minutes (source: Linda Lee, James Yimm Lee)
1966-1970 / Truck Driver / Los Angeles, Street Fight / W (source: Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunak)
1966-1970 / Security Guard of Vic Damone / Los Angeles, Street Fight / W (sidekick to the jaw, source: "Incomparable Fighter" Book)
1971 / Muay Thai Coach / Pak Chong, Thailand, Set of "The Big Boss" / W (source: Tony Liu, Bey Logan)
1973 / Kung Fu stylist1 / Hong Kong, Set of "Enter the Dragon" / W (smashed face with punches, knee to chest. Source: Bob Wall, Bolo Yeung)
1973 / Kung Fu stylist2 / Hong Kong, Set of "Enter the Dragon" / W (kick tooth out. Source: Bey Logan, Madalena Chan)
1973 / Kung Fu stylist3 / Hong Kong, Set of "Enter the Dragon" / W (broke rip with chest kick. Source: Chaplin Chan)
1973 / Kung Fu stylist4 / Hong Kong, Set of "Enter the Dragon" / W (knocked opponent down with straight punches. Source: Fred Weintraub)
1973 / Kung Fu stylist5 / Hong Kong, at Lee´s home / W (sidekick to the chest. Source: Herb Jackson)
Geändert von Saarbrigga (07-04-2016 um 22:39 Uhr)
KKB-Userstatus: Senior
Ja diesen Artikel habe mit Dank auch erhalten.
Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk
Defence Lab Deutschland©
https://defencelab-deutschland.de/
Manche Leute ziehen das Unglück anscheinend magisch an...
Er hat es villeicht nich wörtlich gesagt aber man kann schon sehen das er weg vom WC war und allgemein weniger von trad Kung Fu stilen hielt und sich mehr zum Vollkontakt training bewegte. Er machte sparring und wie man der Auflistung entnehmen kann hatte er ja auch einige Fights und auch bisschen Wettkampf erfahrung.
Was mich pers bei WC-lern nervt ist immer dieses gedöhns das Bruce nicht das ganze WC sistem kannte/konnte sie selber aber nie sparring mit unkooperativen partnern oder nicht WC-lern machen, und wenn ja sieht man vom WC nicht viel, nur schlechtes Kickbxen. Da war Bruce besser, er änderte den Namen und machte einen Schlussstrich mit WC und gut ist.
Jetzt mal ehrlich, was soll das ganze Gerede.
Bruce Lee ist tot und einem Toten etwas zu neiden, ist absolut sinnlos. Und wenn man heute so über einen Verstorbenen spricht, spricht dass nicht für den Sprecher.
Was bringt uns die Aussage, dass er ein guter Kämpfer war? Nichts, keiner von uns wird ihn noch einmal erleben.
Aber wir können den Mythos erklären:
Bruce Lee hat auf der Leinwand einen sehr sportlichen, mutigen Mann gezeigt. Das hat dem Publikum gefallen und deshalb wurde er bekannt.
Bruce Lee hatte zu seiner Zeit eine offene Einstellung zur Kampfkunst und zum Unterrichten. Das war ungewöhnlich, selbst heute sehen die meisten KKler nur ihren Stil und Tradition. Er hatte da einen weiteren Blickwinkel und konnte diesen auch vertreten. Mittlerweile werden Langnasen unterrichtet...
Viele wollten so sein wie er.... egal, ob er kämpfen konnte. Er war ein Filmstar, eine Ikone. Und welcher andere Kampfkünstler war damals genauso berühmt in Amerika? Keiner ? Alle stürzten sich auf ihn. Da musste er auch nicht mehr kämpfen um etwas zu beweisen.
Und dann sein plötzlicher, früher Tod. Er hatte keine Chance Fehler zumachen oder alt zu werden.... besiegt zu werden.
Somit ist es völlig klar, dass er zu einem Mythos wurde. Daraufhin wurden ja viele Schulen gegründet und ein Run auf alles Kung fu ausgelöst.
Jetzt über 30 Jahren nach seinem Tod zu fragen, ob er der beste Kämpfer war, ist nicht zu klären.
Ich kenne einige aus der Ip Man Linie (darunter auch den älteren Kung fu Bruder von BL) und war in Foshan. Ich kann es empfehlen, wenn man kämpfen möchte.
Aber es gibt wohl immer einen besseren Kämpfer, irgendwo.
Also lasst Bruce Lee ruhen und geht lieber ne Runde trainieren.
Vielen Dank für die Infos über BL, war sehr interessant zulesen.
Geändert von DeepBlue (02-06-2015 um 20:45 Uhr)
Gehst Du immer mit so Scheuklappen durchs Leben?
Was weisst Du überhaupt von Choy Lei Fat oder Hung Gar? Hast Du mal mit guten Leuten dieser Stile trainiert oder gekämpft?
Was MT betrifft:
wie war das mit "Choy Lee Fut...the only style that went to Thailand to fight the Thai boxers and didn't lose"?
Es gibt viele CMAler in HK die mit MT'lern trainieren (ganz einfach weil da MT ne Art Messlatte für den Kampf mit Regeln im Ring ist). Würden sie permanent von MT'lern verkloppt, hätten sie schon längst zum MT gewechselt...tun sie aber nicht.
Du meinst das Gehampel von irgendwelchen Wushu-Shows.
Da stimmen wir ja ausnahmsweise mal überein.
Traditionelle CMA sind nicht traditionell weil sie traditionell sind, sondern weil sie funktionieren sollten und funktionieren sollen.
Und bei korrektem Training tun sie's.
Nein habe noch nie mit einem CLF/HGar-ler gesparrt, falls du diese stile machst kanns gerne zu mir in die Schweiz kommen und bee mir übernachten, meine Frau kocht gut, kannst mit mir und meinen jungs sparren und uns das alles zeigen.
Geändert von BLADE !!! (02-06-2015 um 10:28 Uhr)
KKB-Userstatus: Senior
Sorry Quatsch. In China ist man auch heute noch in den Schulen sehr traditionsbewusst und das Gerede immer von wegen habt ihr einen guten WC oder clf Mann gesehen? Es gibt genügend gutes in allen Stilen, aber die Mehrheit ist weniger gut oder unterer Durchschnitt. Das ein guter clf einen weniger guten balletttänzer platt macht dürfte nicht angezweifelt werden. Lass das Wörtchen Gut weg und wir nähern uns so langsam der Realität.
Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk
Defence Lab Deutschland©
https://defencelab-deutschland.de/
So ganz kann man das nicht so sagen. Weiß nicht ob es hier schon erwähnt wurde, aber:
Laut Hawkings Chuen ( selbst ein sehr interessanter Kampfkünstler und sozusagen nähester Jugendfreund zu dem Bruce sein ganzes Leben Kontakt hatte) wollte Bruce in seinen letzten Jahren noch das komplette WC System von IP-Man erlernen. Hat IP auch angeboten ein Haus dafür zu kaufen. Was IP ablehnte. Bruce bereute gegen Ende auch, dass er JDK in die Welt gesetzt hatte.
Hier das ganze Interview mit Hawkings Chuen (Das Video am Beginn der Seite kann man ruhig ungesehen lassen):
Hawkings Chuen über sich und Bruce Lee
Viel Spaß beim lesen
Geändert von synnnth (02-06-2015 um 15:53 Uhr)
KKB-Userstatus: Intermediate
irgendson wing chun typ behauptet auch bruce lee hat jkd erfunden damit er den amerikanern nicht wing chun beibringen muss weil das zu effektiv ist.
ist bestimmt genauso gewesen.
hast ne PM.
Nein habe noch nie mit einem CLF/HGar-ler gesparrt, falls du diese stile machst kanns gerne zu mir in die Schweiz kommen und bee mir übernachten, meine Frau kocht gut, kannst mit mir und meinen jungs sparren und uns das alles zeigen.
Mich beschleicht so langsam das Gefühl, dass traditionell für Dich ein Synonym für beschränkt, idiotisch, nicht aufgeschlossen und rückständig ist.
Nicht dass mich gross kümmert, was Du denkst...
Aber trotzdem interessant, dass nicht wenige auf der Schiene denken.
Warum sollte ich bei CLF etc.das Wort "gut" weglassen?
In China UND in Europa laufen doch haufenweise Wannabes rum, mit teilweise unterirdischem Können.
Aktive Benutzer in diesem Thema: 1 (Registrierte Benutzer: 0, Gäste: 1)
Forumregeln
Mit Zitat antworten
